Categories
Podcast

WHY Of Better Way With Robert Glazer: Why It Works And When It Doesn’t

BYW S4 21 | Better Way

No one starts as a successful entrepreneur, and the journey to the top isn’t always smooth. Here to share his experience is Robert Glazer, the founder and Chairman of the Board of Acceleration Partners. Robert joins Dr. Gary Sanchez to share his career and business journey and how he grew his business by innovating the industry. Now, they are the largest agency globally in a specialized field called affiliate and partner marketing. The two also dissect Robert’s WHY of Better Way and how it paved the way for his success while also discussing when it works against his favor and how he mitigates it. Tune in for an interesting discussion and gain business insight and honest advice to help accelerate your journey.

Watch the episode here

Listen to the podcast here

WHY of Better Way with Robert Glazer: Why It Works and When It Doesn’t

We are going to be talking about the why of better way. If this is your why, then you are the ultimate innovator. You are constantly seeking better ways to do everything. You find yourself wanting to improve virtually anything by finding a way to make it better. You also desire to share your improvement with the world. You constantly ask yourself questions like, “What if we tried this differently? What if we did this another way? How can we make this better?”

You contribute to the world with better processes and systems while operating under the motto, “I’m often pleased but never satisfied.” You are excellent at associating, which means that you are adept at taking ideas or systems from one industry or discipline and applying them to another, always with the ultimate goal of improving something.

I have got a great guest for you. You are going to love this. His name is Robert Glazer. He is the Founder and Chairman of the Board of Acceleration Partners, a global partner marketing agency, and the recipient of numerous industry and company culture awards, including Glassdoor’s Employees’ Choice Awards two years in a row.

He is the author of the inspirational newsletter Friday Forward. He is the number one Wall Street Journal, USA Today, and international bestselling author of five books, Elevate, Friday Forward, How to Thrive in the Virtual Workplace, Moving to Outcomes, and Performance Partnerships. He is a sought-after speaker by companies and organizations around the world and is the host of The Elevate Podcast. Robert, welcome to the show.

Thanks, Gary.

I’m looking forward to this. This is going to be fun.

We are talking about the best why.

Let our audience get to know you a little bit. Where were you born? What were you like in high school? Take us back to that time frame.

I was born outside of Boston. I have a speech that I will give. When I gave that speech, I showed a lot of my report cards. My parents were moving out of the family house and brought them over. I went through them, and they were all on the scene. They were like, “He is capable but we can’t seem to motivate him.” I was very entrepreneurial in marketing or creative. None of that is typically rewarded in the normal education course. I was pretty bored and always told that I was underachieving. I know that has a direct impact on a lot of my why and other why.

It wasn’t until I’ve got to college that I’ve got through the standard core curriculum. I started realizing that I loved business and marketing. I liked learning. I was bored with everything that I was learning before. I was always tinkering with stuff. My mom would tell you. She would ask me to clean my room, and I would rearrange my entire room. I remember one time. I was 9 or 10 years old. I like playing electronics and thought, “I could take my battery-powered game. I could hook a plug up to it and run it.” That exploded in my hands when I did that.

Those were all the things outside the classroom. Those are maybe more now or maybe in a Montessori environment. Those were things more where it was like, “Color in the lines. Stop messing with that stuff and follow this stuff.” To this day, I ended up being diagnosed with ADD later on. I can’t pretend to be interested in something. It doesn’t work for me.

A student, B student or C student, what were you?

B student.

Off to college, did you have any idea what you wanted to do when you went to college?

I thought I wanted to be a lawyer because my dad was a lawyer. I liked the concept of it. I interned at a couple of law firms. I hated the experience and got exposed to the business. I was always running little business things. I remember I had this Now and Later. It was this candy that was super hot in our school. I was ten years old. I figured out how to take the train, buy and resell them for twice as much money. My grandmother found out about the operation. She was like, “You can shut it down or I will tell your mom.”

The things that I was doing that were entrepreneurial were negative in context. I realized that I loved business and marketing. My thinking outside of the box was like, “I’m not the guy you put in the box. I’m the guy you put to destroy the box.” It was interesting. I went abroad. I’ve got done with the core curriculum. I was getting Bs again. Once I started taking the classes I wanted, it didn’t matter how hard it was. I’ve got A’s in almost everything in my junior and senior years. My GPA was 3.0, and now that would be failing. Everyone is at 3.9. It was crazy for the first two years. It was at 3.9 in the second 2 years.

I’m not the guy you put in the box. I’m the guy that you put to destroy the box. Click To Tweet

What did you end up majoring in? Where did you go to college?

I went to Penn. Going abroad for me was a big transition point. I’m opening my mind and understanding that I love business and marketing. These are things that I can learn and get better at. This won’t be surprising to you. None of the majors I liked, so I applied to create my own major within the Individualized Major Department. It’s very on-brand. It was Business and Industrial Psychology. It allowed me to take the Business courses in Wharton with a lot of the Industrial Psychology people stuff. Running a professional organization now for over a decade has probably been the highest thing that I have used.

What was that moment when you realized it? I struggled with that myself. I went off to colleges in undeclared majors and kept that as long as I could. What was the moment that you knew, “Now, I know what I want to do?”

It was after I worked in a couple of those law firms. Honestly, I never like tests. I wasn’t good at the notion of having to study for the LSAT and more school. Also, I learn by experience. I learn more outside of the classroom. I thought about them like, “I don’t think I want to do that. I like this business, marketing, and people stuff.” That was the transition. I encourage everyone. We idolize some things like, “You should do them.” I worked in a law firm pretty terribly. One was okay. The other was terrible. I was like, “I don’t want to do this,” but it seemed fun from the outside.

I thought that was all negotiations and arguing with people. I was pretty good on my feet, and I didn’t even realize. My dad was a lawyer. He did Real Estate Law. He has never even seen a courtroom. Going abroad and being in another country, I was in Prague right after they were dealing with this restitution where they gave families back their businesses, and they didn’t know how to run them. We were doing some cool stuff like working with a brewery. I was like, “This stuff is fun. I love this.” You parachute into a situation. You don’t know what is going on. You’ve got to figure it out. That’s the stuff that makes people crazy but it’s the stuff that I like.

What was your first business? Did you start working for somebody?

I progressively worked for smaller and smaller firms until our firm was growing. The consulting firm I worked for abroad made me an offer, Arthur D Little. I went into strategy consulting for a couple of years. I worked at an incubator during the internet bubble and then a venture firm because I liked being around this company creation. I learned that early on. I liked these fast-growing companies. I was doing a lot of work for other people. I hadn’t figured out the angle I wanted to be around. Eventually, I worked for a startup. I came in outside the founding team.

I came in and made it better. I was like, “Why am I doing this for other people? I ended up finding myself in a very marginalized position helping founders make their businesses better.” I decided, “I would start a business and work with those businesses but I would own my business.” There are also bad cultures in a lot of these high-growth startups. I found a way to expose myself to that type of work but insulate myself from those cultures. That ended up being the better way culture aspect of it.

How do you feel about building something versus maintaining something?

I get bored in the maintenance mode. I’m not your maintenance person. I’m the guy who comes in. I even stepped down as the CEO of my own company because we were getting to a size. The way I explained it, I had a president who was my number two for almost a decade. When you are smaller, the R&D department is the company.

Now, the R&D department is a small piece. Keeping the trains on the track is a big piece, and that’s the CEO’s job now. I even realized, “I want to stay running the R&D department.” I moved into managing new products and services. I’m leading all of our M&A and the stuff that is new. As soon as it becomes monotonous, I’m not interested.

Tell us about your company.

BYW S4 21 | Better Way
Better Way: We are the largest agency globally in a field called specialized field called affiliate and partner marketing. We help some of the biggest brands in the world build digital marketing programs that are made out of partnerships rather than buying clicks and impressions.

Our company is Acceleration Partners. We are the largest agency globally in a specialized field called affiliate and partner marketing. We help some of the biggest brands in the world to build digital marketing programs that are made out of partnerships rather than buying clicks and impressions.

What got you into that? That’s a different angle that people don’t typically talk about. You don’t even hear about it that much unless you happen to be in that world.

It’s a win-win industry. It’s marketing. It’s a partnership, which I was drawn to. I fell into it a little bit by accident because I helped a company build its program that was incredibly successful. It grew to $300 million and sold. People went to all the other companies and called and said, “Can you come to help us do that?” I haven’t met anyone who started an agency intentionally yet. They solve a problem. They hire some people. When people ask them to do more, they hire some more, and then soon they are running an agency.

I do remember being at a conference in our industry and reading this. It was my epiphany moment. As I think about it, it’s a better way. There was a catalog of all these ads of people that could help you with your affiliate programs in it. They were the worst ads that I have ever seen. It looked like they were drawn in crayons. I was like, “If these are the people that are hiring to do marketing for them and their marketing is so terrible, we should be able to crush this.” That was my go-for-it moment because I was horrified at the quality of marketing from people who were being hired to do marketing.

It’s interesting the way you said that because that’s something I say all the time. I’m like, “If that person over there can do it like that, I can do it way better than that.”

In fact, what frustrates me the most is we were talking about a situation like this in the management team. When there’s a company in the right place at the right time, and they seem to do everything wrong, they are still doing well because something endemic to me wants to believe that you have to do it well and good to do well. We try to do everything well and improve. It’s harder to be an agency than it is to be a hot software company sometimes.

People come to you when they want to expand their reach using partnerships versus going out and buying a ton of media.

We use software to build partner programs so that you can have 1,000 partners talking about promoting your product digitally and putting in things. The difference is they get paid only on a performance basis. In some ways, it’s a better way to do marketing. Rather than paying for a click or an impression, you are paying for an outcome or a sale.

If I said to you, Gary, like, “You are trying to get good guests for your podcast. I have the best guest podcast site in the world. I will promote people and send them to you. As you accept them, will you pay me $100 per lead?” You go, “That’s great. That’s much better than the PR service I’m using because I pay them upfront, and I have no idea what I will get.”

If you are a business owner and you have spent any kind of money marketing, it’s an amazingly frustrating experience. You have no idea what you are going to get for the amount of money.

You hear all your friends who have built their business on social media, digital marketing or paid search. If you think there’s inflation in gas and your housing, the inflation in digital marketing and the prices has gotten to the point where it’s very hard to make money unless you are a large player with sophisticated tools.

It’s a massive auction, and the whole world is buying. Auctions don’t tend to benefit the buyers. They tend to benefit the sellers. I always say a little bit about what we do. It’s SEO versus paid search. You need to do the work, put it in, and build a moat. You reap longer-term rewards. It’s not as instantly gratifying but because of that, it tends to be much more sustainable.

It’s really hard to build a competitive, sustainable advantage. Click To Tweet

How were you able to build all these partnerships? You are starting your company fresh. Maybe you already had some connections, and then you put them together and said, “How about if I connect you with someone?”

There’s a known group of people in the industry. They are called professional affiliates. There are people who are known to do this. Part of our thing is building that Rolodex and how to figure out someone who we worked with the one-part program and why they would be good for another program that’s not competitive. There’s a known group of people in this place. We are like matchmakers. There are people looking to date on both sides. Half the group has content, and half the group has the stuff to sell. We are bringing them together.

Are you always adding new partners and products? How does that work?

I’m always adding new clients and partners. Growing our partner Rolodex is a key asset for our business.

To me, from another better-way guy, that sounds like so much fun. It’s connecting people, connecting things, and finding a better, “This would be better if you did it this way.”

The model is like, “Who has figured out Snapchat? Who has figured out mobile marketing? Who has figured out TikTok marketing? How do we go get them and bring them into partnership with a retail brand?” The essence is like sales. We’ve got to find who is new, interesting, and doing something fun.

You have also written five books.

I wrote it all over five years because I’m not good at not doing stuff.

What was the first book? Take us through the sequence of your books.

I had this note that I sent to my team called Friday Forward, that I started years ago. That ended up going outside of our company, reaching a couple of hundred thousand people across the world every week. This is an inspirational and thought-provoking note. I decided to turn that into a book or compilation of the 52 best Friday Forwards. I pitched that to a bunch of places, and they said, “We love your writing but no one buys compilations.” I ran into one agent who said, “I love your writing. These are amazing. No one buys compilations but you have a book here. What is the story of these stories?”

I went back and deconstructed, “What is the framework of this into this thing called? It’s capacity.” I spent a couple of years reworking that into, “Why did Friday Forward work? What had changed my life? What was the whole thing?” I came up with this framework of capacity building. That was the basis of my second book, Elevate, which has still been the most popular. The first book I wrote was called Performance Partnerships to try to explain to the world why our industry was a better way effectively and convince people they misunderstood affiliate marketing and what it could be. That was real like, “We are going to try to turn the industry our way.”

That book has become a default training book in organizations. It was the first book written on the industry, and then there was Elevate. After Elevate, it was a huge success. I ended up going back in writing and publishing that Friday Forward book. Once I had an audience, I held on to it. We were an all-remote firm for over a decade, and COVID hit. We had been doing this for a while, and people started asking us all kinds of questions. I was giving speeches. Every time I give the speech, I would take the questions they ask and tweak them.

BYW S4 21 | Better Way
Better Way: There are people on both sides and half the group has content and half the group has stuff to sell, and we’re just bringing them together.

I have always said like, “My purpose is to share ideas that help people and organizations grow.” I also hate the monotony, as we talked about. I was like, “Why don’t I turn this into a book so I can stop giving the same presentation over and over again and I can answer all the things?” With my publisher, 90 days later, we’ve got it down to an eBook. I doubled and released it as a full book six months later. That was the number-one New York Times, USA Today, and WSJ bestseller.

Which one was that?

That was How to Thrive in the Virtual Workplace.

You had one after that even.

That’s called Moving to Outcomes. That’s my second marketing book. It’s the sequel to Performance Partnerships five years later.

Tell us about Moving to Outcomes.

The first book was meant to explain the affiliate opportunity in the industry and what companies were missing. This is a little more of the shift that I was talking about. It’s about why people are holistically moving to partnerships and why the marketing is moving to direct marketing if you are not a brand. If you are spending marketing directly when you want to do it on an outcome basis, it’s not a click or impression basis. It’s all these reasons in digital marketing that companies need to think about what is next once the Facebook-Amazon gravy train runs its course a little more.

From where it was a few years ago to now, it’s a different animal.

It’s hard to build a competitive and sustainable advantage. You can spend a lot of money. You can get started but it’s hard, particularly as a little guy, to fight a war. You are fighting with BB guns while people have cannons, airplanes, and things that they can do to get better yield. If you think about a stock portfolio, I’m not going to get rich on Tesla, Apple, and Microsoft over the next decade. They are so big that they are not going to 10X. I need to find what is the next company. For a lot of these channels, they have reached the maturity where they are a bond now. They don’t sell your bonds but you are not going to get your huge growth off of your bond.

In this mastermind that I’m in, one of the guys spends the most money of anybody in the world on YouTube ads. It’s fascinating how often stuff changes for him, and he gets shut down.

I’m sure he could tell you it has gotten twice as expensive to buy the same thing.

Within your company, you have utilized the why with your team.

Every strength at 105 or 110 degrees is a weakness. Click To Tweet

I was exposed to this. It’s your framework through a facilitator. It was life-changing for me. I remember he was walking through the example at a conference. Jamie and I had very similar origin stories around this. It’s around how he is coaching a husband and a wife. They were going on their anniversary. She had planned every day of the trip out, and then he tried to figure out how to make every day better. It turns out I’m better way in my wife’s right way. We are the most combustible of the why from a marriage side.

It was game-changing for me and my business. I’m looking at it also for my wife, the family and me. We use the language. She will say like, “We are going to the thing tonight. Please don’t try to make this better.” When she and my son, who are both right-way and can’t pick to see if their life is pizza versus Chinese food on a Friday night, they go back to the store and come back with everything because they can’t decide or nothing. I will be like, “Make a decision. There’s no wrong choice here.”

It’s one of the things I have seen that’s interesting. I have a lot of right-way personalities in my life in the company. While that is potentially very combustible, the problem is they are the people you want to pull the plug to make a great decision but they can’t dumb down that decision-making apparatus to simple decisions. They are paralyzed by pizza or Chinese food but they would be the first person to know whether you should pull the plug or not pull the plug in a life-threatening situation.

That’s interesting what you are saying there because what I found in working with lots of companies is the missing piece for most of them is not having somebody with the right way on their team.

They frustrate the heck out of you but they will slow you down. Our team has a lot of makes-sense people, too. When you throw a big harebrained idea on them and don’t understand what it is, they get so frustrated. I know that we have something good when I’m able to make it clear enough where they are like, “That makes sense. We should do that.” In our leadership team, we joke about these archetypes. We see them all the time. They are the most powerful thing that I have seen in interpersonal communication.

I told you a guy on our team for years. His visceral reaction was like, “I don’t buy this whole thing because you can’t put in the archetype.” Everything he says, “Is it right or not fundamentally?” We have worn him down at this point. He admits it. Even admitting it for right people that you can put people in the archetypes for them, sometimes they don’t think that’s right.

Do you have anybody on your team with the why of challenge?

It’s not on my leadership team. They don’t tend to survive in the company for more than a couple of years. We had one. We are still friends with him. We talked about it. He would throw a grenade into things every six months. We have talked about this openly. It was funny. They can’t help themselves. We have another person now who is challenged. He is challenged and great. He was the one in the session who was like, “This whole thing is BS in this why thing.”

I found that to challenge people. A lot of them almost have to end up working for themselves because they will throw a grenade into a situation if they are hired on that thing. We have another one in sales. He is phenomenal but he does not like to follow the playbook or do what he is told. We learned like, “Telling me can’t do something. There’s no way you could sell in Eastern Europe.” He gets all over it. He works for the right way person. They have to figure that out a little bit.

It was interesting because you were speaking my language. You were saying the things that I say. You have noticed the things that not a lot of people notice but you did notice them. You articulated them in a way that I completely get. It’s neat to have somebody with your why to have a conversation with because you are speaking the same language.

The most powerful thing and why we teach this to our emerging leaders on the core values is interpersonal. More than any other tests, StrengthsFinder and Kolbe, this gets to the root tension between people and their understanding of that. My understanding of what a makes-sense needs, what a right way needs or what people need is the ultimate team thing.

We don’t use the language that someone is like, “That was a very deep thing to say.” What is fascinating with the makes-sense people is they say it all the time. They end sentences with, “That makes sense.” You hear it everywhere. I can tell you where people are going to struggle or do well interpersonally based on what their why is and where there are going to be natural conflicts.

You also hit on something a little bit ago that is what I have been saying about myself and about other people with the why of better way. We don’t necessarily make a good long-term CEO. We’ve got to get somebody else to replace us. We can build. This is what I have found, and maybe this will be even helpful for you. The best why that I know of for the CEO after it has been built is the why of contribute because they are now about everybody else and making everybody else better.

BYW S4 21 | Better Way
Better Way: The most important thing you can do early in your career is work for extraordinary leaders, go to companies with extraordinary training programs, focus on learning.

You were about, “How am I going to get this sucker to where I needed to be? Who do I get to put in place to make that happen?” If you can put somebody with the why of contribute in the CEO position, then it’s going to be phenomenal for them. They are going to love you. Your team is going to love it. Everybody is going to love it. I don’t know what the why is of the person.

He is a makes-sense. We are all very high. He probably contributes as our whats or hows. In our team, there’s a high level of contribution, trying to make people better and improve them. That’s endemic in our culture. I will tell you one of the things is self-prospection. I’m sure that I have had to learn as a better way is that every strength at 105 or 110 degrees is a weakness. I tend to exhaust myself, my team, and my family.

One of the things I have coached people on in their whys or other whys is, “If I want to improve everything in the company, I can frustrate people to the point where nothing gets improved.” I have had to learn to pick my spots of, “I’m going to make this thing better. I can’t make everything better or nothing will get better.” I do it to myself, and I know I exhaust my wife with it. At times, I’m doing family with it. It’s being aware of that. That, to me, is the biggest exhaustion.

Even we bought an investment place for a living, I’m constantly ordering extra batteries from Amazon, so we have them. I’m moving that picture on the wall, and people are like, “How come you can’t sit down and enjoy the play?” I’m like, “I don’t know. I was still stuffed this week.” I go on vacation, and I’m working half the time. It’s not work. It’s on moving stuff around or hanging this picture. It’s an optimization, both a blessing and a disease.

Here is an interesting question. Are you ever satisfied?

It’s probably not, which is a good thing and a bad thing. It’s a hard time being present. I have always done these renovation projects. Once I had a new one, I never thought about the old one again. When looking at it, it’s almost like I need a new thing to turn my sights on to close off the old one. That’s the way I mentally detach myself. It’s not necessarily a healthy thing but it is what it is at this point.

Are you able to celebrate wins?

Our whole team is not good at that. We joke, “We are all Gen X leadership team by parents that were not effusive in praise like parents are now.” The pro side of that is we get over difficulties quickly. We don’t linger on it but we are not great at celebrating the upside. That is both my personality and very endemic. We talked about all the childhood upbringing of Gen X versus Gen Y and Z.

I wonder if that’s what it is because I feel the same way. Luckily, I have people on my team that point things out to me. Otherwise, I would be like, “We did this. Now, what is next?”

That is criticism, and we hear that. It’s both our team but also cultures that are changing. You are talking about generations that have grown up with an extreme amount of praise for, in some cases, mediocre effort. We have to be aware of that. It’s tough. We talk about it. We are a high-performance culture. People generally need more of that open praise but we also want to be careful. We probably shouldn’t hire people that want praise for mediocre effort because that doesn’t align with our culture like, “You tried hard.”

I went to my kid’s invention convention. I loved that when I was a kid, not surprisingly. Everyone got an honorable mention. People had theoretical projects that their parents did. I was like, “This is ridiculous. What the heck is this teaching?” I remember the guy who won my year. He figured out how to straw up his bike, and you could drink out of it. He won a prize. Now, everyone gets an honorable mention. Clearly, either the parents did the projects themselves, or it was a theoretical thing like, “This is a food shrinker, and I point a gun at it.” I’m like, “I don’t understand. This is supposed to be kids doing the work.”

What is next for you, Robert? Where are you headed next?

You can’t make everything better or nothing will get better. Click To Tweet

What we are talking about is I’m trying to self-identify and solve a problem. I have been 70/30 for a few years. I have been the CEO of the company. Also, I have a great team. I have been writing books and doing stuff outside the company. The issue is it has been 130% and not 70/30. I physically and mentally exhausted myself. It’s capped off by the global pandemic and doing a big deal with a private equity partner.

I realized I wanted to get down to 70/30. I will turn over the CEO role. I will continue doing the stuff that I love. I will continue writing the books but I’m not going to do it on the weekends. I’m not going to do it at night. I have got some golden years with my kids. Part of the restructure was to give me some space to think and be in the R&D department but also to practice being more present.

Initially, after the transition with new partners in the role, I tried to throw myself into new things, and then I realized like, “I can’t do this. I need to step back and recover physically and mentally from a ten-year marathon of never stopping.” A lot of that was some awareness of what I was likely to do. I’m not letting myself get into fundamentally any major new thing for a while. I’m very invested in my business. I’m continuing a different role but I’m not looking to start anything new or do anything majorly now.

I’m interested to see how that goes because that’s me as well 100%, “Let’s go.” I have not figured out or been able to not do that. I feel like I’m wasting time if I do that.

A twelve-hour day, I have nothing. I’m not bored at all. I’m learning how to do M&A for our business. I have joined some boards. I’m filling in with macro-things. I have recognized I have run myself a little too hard. I’m trying to do all of these things. I’m trying to run a company, write books and speak all this stuff. Dialing it down, it has been healthy.

I don’t think it’s a long-term solution but in some ways, it’s a little meta. I don’t want a second act now. My kids are all in high school and going to college. I want these years. If I don’t give myself some space, I will not figure out some cool things that I could do in 5 or 10 years. I need the space to figure out what that is for a few years but I’m not in any rush to do it now.

I’m going to be very interested in watching you.

You either learn something. You will say, “I told you that’s not going to work.”

It’s how we are wired.

Have you ever exhausted yourself?

For sure. I have exhausted people around me. It will be fun to watch. The last question for you, what is the best piece of advice you have ever been given or the best piece of advice you have ever given?

It’s a little bit of both. I would say this under the context of all the people shifting careers and thinking about something new otherwise. There are good and bad reasons to do that. I see a lot of people in their twenties chasing $500, $1,000 or $5,000 more irrespective of what that situation is or otherwise. The most important thing you can do early in your career is work for extraordinary leaders and go to companies with extraordinary training programs. Focus on learning. You are always underpaid in your twenties.

BYW S4 21 | Better Way
Better Way: You’re setting yourself up for what comes next by working for the right companies, the right leaders, and being in an incredible training program.

The difference to me of people who worked for great leaders, got great training, and focused on making themselves the best they could get, that $5,000 or $10,000 more that the other job offered you is irrelevant. When you turn 30, you start to be an expert in something. I would focus on the environments where you have the most learning and work for incredible leaders. Frankly, learn on someone else’s dime. Everyone is so eager in their twenties to get somewhere and get to the end. I was always underpaid in my twenties, no matter how good of the work that I was doing.

You are setting yourself up for what comes next by working for the right companies and the right leaders and being in an incredible training program. You probably know the amount of sales leaders I know who worked at Cutco. As a simple example, some of the best salespeople in the world went through this Cutco training when they were twenty. That’s what you want to do. That’s the best training and preparation that you could have.

I would add to that because there’s a common theme for many of the people I have had on the show who have done amazing things. When I pointed back to, “What was that turning moment,” a lot of them would say, “It’s when I’ve got into personal growth.”

For me, I joined a lot of people. It could be any of these organizations, whether EO or YPO. When I joined EO, I jumped into this exponential learning. It was like drugs. It was incredible. The only thing I would caution that I found myself going down this road is if you are married or in a partnership, be very careful going down that road without bringing your partner along with you.

That is why groups like EO and YPO have these spousal and partner things around trying to create that same experience. Sometimes you go to these conferences. You are going to this learning like, “In this why thing, my wife was with me there in Buenos Aires, Argentina.” These are the things that either happen together or they happen apart. I have seen it do amazing things for relationships and pull relationships apart.

If there are people that want to connect with you, follow you, see what you are up to, and maybe want to work with Acceleration Partners, what would be the best way for them to connect with you?

They can learn about Acceleration Partners. It’s easier to google it than to spell it, so just google Acceleration Partners. We are doing our job. We should come up with number one. In terms of me, I have everything under one place now, RobertGlazer.com. You can sign up for that free Friday Forward note. The books are listed there. I have got a course on helping to discover your personal core values, which goes well with the why stuff, and I have seen a lot of overlap. Speaking and other stuff is all on that page.

Thank you so much for being here. I was looking forward to this because we have got a lot of people in common that we know, and you have utilized the why so much. I’m going to follow you now because I want to see what happens with this little test you are doing.

You are checking the little wedding clock.

Thanks so much for being here.

Important links

About Robert Glazer

BYW S4 21 | Better WayRobert Glazer is the Founder and Chairman of the Board of Acceleration Partners, a global partner marketing agency and the recipient of numerous industry and company culture awards, including Glassdoor’s Employees’ Choice Awards two years in a row.

He is the author of the inspirational newsletter Friday Forward, and the #1 Wall Street Journal, USA Today and international bestselling author of five books: ElevateFriday Forward, How To Thrive In The Virtual Workplace, Moving To Outcomes and Performance Partnerships.  He is a sought-after speaker by companies and organizations around the world and is the host of The Elevate Podcast.

Categories
Podcast

Ensure Your Financial Future With Whole Life Insurance With Sarry Ibrahim

BYW S4 20 Sarry | Whole Life Insurance

 

Are you looking for a more secure foundation for your financial future? Whole life insurance could be the solution you’ve been looking for. Today’s guest is Sarry Ibrahim, founder of Financial Asset Protection, a financial services firm that focuses on one sole concept; the Bank On Yourself concept, also known as the Infinite Banking Concept. He also hosts their official podcast, Thinking Like a Bank. Sarry helps real estate investors, business owners, and full-time employees grow safe and predictable wealth regardless of market conditions. How? Through whole life insurance. Tune in as he joins Dr. Gary Sanchez to break down the concept using his gift, the WHY of Simplify.

Watch the episode here

Listen to the podcast here:

 

Ensure Your Financial Future With Whole Life Insurance With Sarry Ibrahim

If you’re a regular reader, you know that every episode we talk about 1 of the 9 Whys and then bring on somebody with that Why so you can see how their Why has played out in their life. We’re going to be talking about the Why of Simplify, which is a very rare Why. If this is your Why then you are one of the fabulous people that make everyone else’s life better. You have the unique gift of reducing the number of steps required for almost any task. If most of us believe that a procedure requires 8 sequential actions, you see how to do it in 6.

You constantly look for ways of simplifying from recipes to business systems and how you organize your garage. You feel successful when you eliminate complexity and remove unnecessary elements in a process. You streamline things for the benefit of all and break things down into their simplest form. You like things direct to the point and don’t give me the fluff. I’ve got a great guest for you. His name is Sarry Ibrahim. He is a financial planner and member of the Bank On Yourself organization.

He helps real estate investors, business owners and full-time employees grow safe and predictable wealth regardless of market conditions using a financial strategy that has been around for over 160 years. Sarry started his journey when he was in grad school completing his MBA. He worked for companies like Allstate, Blue Cross, Blue Shield, Cigna, HealthSpring and Humana before founding Financial Asset Protection, a financial services firm that focuses on one sole concept, the Bank On Yourself concept, also known as the Infinite Banking Concept. Sarry, welcome to the show.

Gary, thank you so much for having me on. I appreciate it.

This is going to be interesting. We’re going to dive back into your life. You told me already you’re in Chicago. It’s a little bit chilly there. You grew up there. Tell us about that. Where did you grow up in Chicago? What were you like in high school? What would your friends say about you?

I grew up in a Southwest suburb of Chicago. It’s Palos Hills for those familiar with the Chicago area. It’s about 30 minutes or 40 minutes South of Downtown Chicago. I was always very curious growing up. I always wanted to learn more about how the world worked more than I could handle and beyond my scope. For example, in class, I would look out the window and think about how things work outside of the classroom rather than inside the classroom. I was always a visionary.

I learned that visionaries think far ahead of steps. That could be problematic because if you’re not focused on the moment, you can miss certain things. That was also part of my life. I would make mistakes because I wasn’t present. I was thinking way too far ahead but I still enjoyed imagining different things that I still do as an entrepreneur. One of the reasons why I’m an entrepreneur is because I can’t settle for normal day-to-day things. I have to always think far ahead.

When I was a senior in high school, I took a class called Consumer Economics. It was how to write a check, how to look at a bank statement, what is a mortgage, what is interest and all these things. I liked it a lot. I understood those things back then. I wanted to make that into a career where that’s what you do for a living. You help people with financial things like that. I was still new to it. I was still young.

I didn’t know that was called financial consultant or financial planner. I got a bachelor’s degree, went to college and got an MBA with a concentration in project management. I started working for the insurance companies and seeing how they would think and evaluated risks. That led me into financial planning and helping people with financial strategies and accomplishing financial goals.

 

You’ll never know your passion before you actually do something. How are you going to be passionate about a career that you’ve never done before? Click To Tweet

 

I’m thankful that it was exactly what I’ve always wanted to do. It’s to solve financial problems. It’s not so much of, “If you have money, you can work with me.” It’s more of, “What is it? What’s going on in your life? What are some of your financial problems? Either too little money too much money or whatever the case is, what do you need help with?” That’s what I do. I help clients in all 50 states accomplish their financial goals. That’s who I am and some of my background.

What made you go into insurance? How did you get from college into working for different insurance companies? It sounds like you worked for a couple of them as well.

Typically, the average person who works for an insurance organization is 59 years old. It’s usually an old-school industry to be in. It’s not so much with my friends. I was the only one in my social group that went into insurance. I don’t know what it was. I came across an opportunity to work at Allstate. That was the first company. I told myself, “I don’t know what to expect. I have no idea what’s on the other side of that door until I go through that door and see.” That’s what happened. It was a lesson in life. You will never know your passion before you do something.

It’s almost impossible to say, “I’m going to do this career because I like it,” when you haven’t even done that career yet. That’s how high school and college are trained. It’s like, “Choose something you’re passionate about. Stick to it.” How are you going to be passionate about a career that you’ve never done before? The same is true that I would have never chosen insurance or financial services. It doesn’t sound transparent and appealing but once I got involved in it and understood it, I liked it. It made sense. There was a lot of logic behind it. Speaking of simplifying things, there were a lot of things that you could simplify in that world.

You got your MBA. You’re done. There are many directions you could have gone. Why Allstate?

First of all, I liked the name, the brand and how it was marketed. I worked there. While I was working there, I found that a lot of clients also liked working with the brand. More importantly, they liked working with people. One of the selling points of working in insurance is working with people, not just the companies or the brands. I enjoyed working with people and then owning the process of dealing with problems, claims and things like that. It was also a self-employable field to be in. That means that you could branch off and start your business either with Allstate or other companies.

I then went from Allstate to being an independent consultant/broker so I could represent different companies. That was something attractive to me. I thought about it. I was like, “How would the future look? The future could be that I have contracts with 30 different insurance companies and financial organizations. I have thousands of clients. I can work anywhere in the world. I just need a computer and a phone.” That was the kind of industry it is.

If I was, for example, working as a mechanical engineer for a Fortune 500 company, that’s not a self-employable field. I can’t branch off, start my mechanical engineering company and do that. With insurance, you could. You have that opportunity. It’s people-to-people and small business-to-small business. It was the lifestyle that got me attracted to it. I work entirely from home. Everything is done on Zoom or over the phone. All my podcasting as a guest and as a host is done on Zoom. My wife and I have a son. We could travel and go somewhere. I’m not restricted to 9:00 to 5:00 anywhere.

It seemed like there were not too many steps to get you to where you wanted to go.

 

BYW S4 20 Sarry | Whole Life Insurance
Whole Life Insurance: The people who made it through the great depression were ones who had reserves and life insurance, because the way that insurance companies operate is not directly correlated or affected by the stock market.

 

It’s hard work still. I had to build up the book of business. The independent insurance route has about a 95% turnover rate. For every 100 people, 95 quit and go do something else because it’s very difficult. It’s hard to attract people, work with people and keep them as clients. I positioned more into financial planning, not just insurance. Insurance is one of the tools that we have. There’s also the financial planning aspect of building out financial plans for people, saving for retirement, getting out of debt, negotiating and things like that. We do more of that too.

You got into insurance, transitioned over to financial planning, got out and started your own. You used a 160-year-old process. Tell us about that.

It’s called the Infinite Banking Concept. It was invented by Nelson Nash years ago. One of the primary routes of the Infinite Banking Concept is the use of cash value whole life insurance. For how not sexy it sounds, it’s one of the most significant things in the world. These insurance companies have been in business for over 160 years. They have been implementing these. It’s the same with companies. A lot of organizations that have been around for a long time, their backbones or reserves are in cash value life insurance. Banks have most of their reserves in cash value life insurance.

A lot of the things that happen in the world, financially speaking, revolve around life insurance companies. There are about 2,000 life insurance companies in the United States alone. If you were to take all their reserves and money and pool it together, it would be greater than all of the cash from all the banks and oil companies in the world combined. It gives you a visual of what’s happening. If a high-rise building in Switzerland is being built, a US life insurance company probably has something to do with it. They have loaned money to it and invested in that deal. A lot of things in the world are happening from the backbones of life insurance companies.

Should that make me feel good or bad?

That should make you feel good because there’s certainty and security. The people, families and corporations that made it to the Great Depression were ones who had reserves and life insurance because the way that insurance companies operate is not directly correlated or affected by the stock market and other things. In March 2020 when COVID first happened, life insurance companies’ cash reserves weren’t affected by COVID whereas the stock market was. The stock market went up since COVID happened. Initially, there was a hit to it.

From the perspective of certainty and safety, you want your money sitting somewhere or at least one place. If everything goes down and shuts down, you have one account somewhere that’s protected. It’s going to earn compound interest and growth. This is exactly what we do. We use the Infinite Banking Concept to help clients, small business owners and individuals have at least some certainty for the future and something they could predict and look onto.

We have a podcast called Thinking Like a Bank. We launched Episode 51. Check out Episode 51. We talk about what happens when there’s chaos. There’s this Ukraine-Russia situation. How does that impact us? We don’t know. Nobody knows how long that war is going to last and the magnitude of it. As business owners and individuals here, we need some certainty of how do we take our cash with us into the future, grow it into the future and no risk at all.

What is a cash value whole life insurance?

 

We use the infinite banking concept to help clients, small business owners, individuals have at least some sort of certainty for the future. Something they could predict and look onto. Click To Tweet

 

There are typically three types of life insurance out there. There’s a term, whole life and universal. The term has a set period. It’s usually 10 years, 20 years or 30 years. There is no cash value to it. It’s simple life insurance only. Use it for that certain period. There’s a start date and end date. The whole life has a start date. It’s life insurance. There’s also a savings account portion to it that grows and earns interest and dividends. Dividends are not guaranteed but there are dividends involved with whole life insurance. The cash value grows over time.

Universal life is very similar to both the term and whole life. It’s a little bit complicated to explain but it’s pretty much another form of permanent cash value life insurance. We’re focused on the middle one or cash value whole life insurance. It’s a special design. It’s not just from any company or agent but a special design cash value whole life insurance policy that allows you to build up cash in it to protect from market conditions. There are a ton of tax advantages with whole life insurance to give you the ability to always have access to that money.

Here’s one problem in 2008. For the real estate investors reading this, you know what happened in 2008. A lot of people had properties. A lot of real estate investors, contractors and construction companies had money in real estate. A couple of compounding problems happened. One problem that happened was the real estate market crashed. All the values dropped significantly. After that happened, banks stopped loaning out money because the collateral went down. It became too risky.

Plus, unemployment went up. A lot of companies shut down. The stock market took a hit. That means that it wasn’t a lendable society. A lot of people weren’t lendable anymore. That changed the way banks started lending money. What happened if you owned twenty real estate properties that were all paid off? You’re stuck because you don’t want to sell them at such a low rate if you might have to. You can’t borrow against them because there’s no bank available to loan you the money.

Even if there was a bank to loan you the money, they’re going to loan you an amount that’s much less than that because the values went down and banks loan according to the value of it. It had this spiraling effect like, “If this then that,” all spiraling together. With whole life insurance, that won’t happen because it’s not correlated with the stock market. When the stock market or the real estate market goes down, the account values don’t go down.

That’s one aspect of it. You always have the value of it increasing no matter what happens in the market. The other side to it is you have guaranteed access to the funding or the money either through loans or withdrawals regardless of how the economy does. It’s not based on credit nor is it based on economical or financial external conditions. Banks loan out money according to the person’s credit, the economy and the community we’re in.

How does your money grow in a whole life plan?

Let’s say, for example, one of the companies we work with is Lafayette Insurance Company. Lafayette Insurance Company is a private for-profit life insurance company. They have investments. They invest in the bond market, give out loans to banks, invest in real estate properties and earn profits from every year. Part of their profits every year get distributed back to the policy owners because it’s a mutually-owned life insurance company and because how they have structured their policies is to give dividends back to the policy owners. That’s one way. The second way is they guarantee you an interest rate.

It’s a very small interest rate. It’s nothing crazy. It was 4% up until 2022. Some regulations changed. They dropped down to 3% guaranteed gross. There are also the dividends. We’re expecting the dividends are going to go up because dividends are positively correlated with interest rates. As interest rates go up, it’s projected that dividend rates will go up as well. That’s how somebody could have a cash value whole life insurance policy and have the cash in it grow over time, not just from the money they’re putting into it but also from the insurance company growing and then providing dividends and interest back to the accounts.

 

BYW S4 20 Sarry | Whole Life Insurance
Whole Life Insurance: If the stock market goes down, whole life insurance is still there. You want some foundations in your financial plan.

 

Let’s say you took $100 and put it into a whole life plan. You took $100 and put it into the stock market or the S&P 500. What happens? Take us through the scenarios.

A lot of people will project that. They will project, “What if I put $100 a month into a whole life policy versus the S&P 500 fund?” Number one is that the whole life policy is not meant to be an investment. It’s meant to be a savings account. It’s meant to be used for investments. What you could do is fund the whole life policy, borrow against that and then put it in the stock market, which a lot of people do. A lot of our clients do it. We help them structure things like that. It’s a matter of both and it’s not meant to replace either one.

There are so many different ways to give financial advice and so many rules to follow. One thing I would recommend is the whole life part is just one of the legs in your financial portfolio. It’s not the whole financial portfolio. It shouldn’t be either whole life insurance or the stock market. I believe that people should be truly diversified. They should have some money in the stock market, whole life insurance, real estate, their business and different places. I use the word truly diversified. We talked about this in Episode 51 of our show.

Some people might have money in the stock market in low risk, medium risk and aggressive. They might say that they’re diversified but all their money is in the stock market. That’s not truly diversified. Truly diversified is some money in the stock market, bonds, different markets, different areas and even places that are not correlated or connected to each other. It’s an example of whole life insurance. If the stock market goes down, whole life insurance is still there. If the real estate market goes down, you want some foundations in your financial plan.

If you put $100 into a whole life, you would get a 3% return. If you put it in the stock market, you could get a 20% return or a 20% loss. It’s not much of a gamble but it’s not much of a return.

Nobody gets rich off of whole life insurance. It’s meant to preserve capital. It’s meant to keep your wealth and have it outpace inflation and a savings account because savings accounts nowadays give 1/10 of 1% if you don’t have a percentage. At least with the whole life policy, you can at least outpace that. Plus, you get the tax advantages and you have it sitting somewhere that’s not going to be impacted by market conditions. Plus, there are no credit qualifications for the loan when you borrow against it.

Plus, there are some legal things too with litigation. In most states, it’s protected from predators and people trying to sue you. There are a lot of aspects other than the rate of return that people should consider. You mentioned a good point on the rate of return aspect. A lot of people come in and say, “What’s the rate of return on it?” We tell them, “It’s 3%.” They say, “No, thank you.” They go somewhere else and potentially earn 12% or 10% in the stock market.

I see what they’re thinking. They’re thinking they want the most value out of their money but there are still other aspects like the taxes, protection, economical conditions and other things that go into play other than the rate of return. Plus, you could use the policy for higher rates of return. We have clients who fund whole life policies. From the funds in the policy, they borrow against those and then do private money lending where they’re investing to real estate investors.

It inflates your overall return when you have a whole life with other lending and investments because what happens is you get both. You get the growth from whole life insurance and the private money you’re lending out or the other investments you have. Those together give you a much higher rate of return when it’s together rather than using one or the other. When you integrate them together, it gives you a compounding or a much higher return than choosing one without the other.

 

One rule of financial planning is it’s never one solution for everybody. There are different situations. Click To Tweet

 

Is it an interest-free loan that you give yourself?

You would borrow the money from the insurance company and pay interest to the insurance company. It’s typically a simple interest rate that’s compounded in arrears. At the end of the year, the interest is due and it doesn’t compound on it. When you earn on your policy, you’re earning compound interest. What happens is that there’s arbitrage. Arbitrage is the growth of your money even when you’re using the money. A lot of real estate investors do this.

They will borrow, for example, $100,000 from their policy and then use it for real estate. Let’s say they paid $5,000 back to their policy. They may have earned that year $10,000 from their policy. There was an arbitrage or a net gain of $5,000. They bought money at $105,000 and earned $110,000. Their split is $5,000 in that situation. There is a lot more that goes into it but it gets to the point where the money outpaces, which brings it into a whole other topic of opportunity costs. Imagine if you paid cash for everything, bought real estate or cars with cash and invested in your business with only cash.

The downside to that is you would never earn interest on your money. You would lose the opportunity cost you could have earned on that interest. You spent that money. Had you invested that money or saved it somewhere, borrowed against it and then paid it back, you would never skip a beat on your interest. You would always keep earning interest even when you are buying real estate and cars, investing in your business or whatever else you’re doing.

Are there different times in your life when a whole life makes sense and times when it doesn’t make sense? Does it always make sense?

One rule of financial planning is there’s never one solution for everybody. There are different situations. This is why you need to work with somebody who’s unbiased and who’s going to take a step back and look at your financial situation. There are some times when whole life insurance doesn’t make sense for the people who, for example, don’t have much in reserves or income. In my opinion, it wouldn’t make sense to tie up that money into a life insurance policy because there’s a capitalization period. There’s a period where you’re funding the policy.

Your cash value is not going to match directly with your premiums going into it. There’s going to be a dip. When you start a business, you’re not going to be profitable in year one. There’s going to be a slight dip in your business. Maybe a couple of years later, you would come out profitable. It’s the same thing with whole life insurance. You might do a policy. For example, in year one, you put $10,000 and your cash value in year one is $6,000. There was a cost to that insurance but it’s not about year one. If somebody is only focused on year one then I would not recommend it to them.

If somebody is focused on the next 10 or 20 years, I would recommend it to them. Those are the costs. Eventually, the cash value exceeds the premiums paid to it. You end up coming out ahead. You get more out of the policy than you put into it in the later years, not in the first year. I don’t know of any investments without taking any risks when in year one, you could come out ahead. Maybe there are some bonds and things like that you could do where you could come out ahead but for the most part, it’s a long-term play when you passively invest.

What is your goal as a financial planner?

 

BYW S4 20 Sarry | Whole Life Insurance

Whole Life Insurance: When you integrate them together, it gives you a compounding return, a much higher return than just choosing one without the other.

 

My goal is I want to help people solve their problems. That’s how I stay in business. How I can get satisfaction out of what I do is by solving problems for people. If somebody has debt that they want to pay off efficiently and they want to get out of debt, I can help them with that. If they want to save for retirement, I can figure that out. We can go through a solution for them. If they want to transition from a full-time employee to running a business and they need help with the financial aspects of that, we can help with that. That’s what I want. I want to be able to solve problems for people and concrete problems, not just sell a mutual fund and say that it’s the solution. It’s more concrete where the client says, “This helped me a lot. This helped me out this way.” They see the benefits of it.

Who has been your biggest mentor that has taught you the most? You’re competing out there in the marketplace with guys that are 60 and have been doing this for 30 years. Why should somebody choose you over somebody that has been in the field for 30 years?

Here’s full disclosure. Thankfully, I’ve been in a situation where it was me or another advisor who has been in the industry for 30 years. I’ve been thankfully chosen over them. There are a couple of things. Number one, I’m part of an awesome team. I’m part of the Bank On Yourself group. We’re a group of 300 advisors in North America. We have weekly training calls. We had to go through a credentialing program to get accepted and be able to provide these types of policies and solutions for clients.

That had a huge impact on my success. Number two, I have a mentor too. I’ve been working with them for years. His name is Mark Willis. You could check out his podcast called Not Your Average Financial Podcast. He has helped me out a lot. He’s a big reason for my success. He is the top Bank On Yourself professional out of 300 advisors in North America. He is number one since he started with this program. I have a lot of support from the top advisors in the country. I’m thankful for that.

I like to simplify things. I’ve worked with clients before who said they have read books, listened to podcasts and still haven’t figured out this concept. After twenty minutes on the phone with me, they did. Not to brag but that has been practiced on my end. I’ve been practicing the skill, not just this skill particularly but also the skill of conveying subjects and concepts to people and breaking them down into smaller and more manageable pieces. I’m very good at that.

I’m taking complex things and situations and then breaking them down to the point where somebody who is ten years old can understand exactly what’s going on. It’s like Albert Einstein’s quote, “If you can’t explain something in very simple terms then you don’t understand it properly.” I’m a big advocate of that. Thankfully, a lot of clients have seen that in me. They have been wanting to work with me because I don’t start the conversation by talking about bond rates, the S&P 500 and all these things that are irrelevant to them.

It’s not about the company, percentage or rate of return. It’s about working with individuals who can listen to you and implement things that truly matter to you. If a client says, “I want 10% on my money,” and then you say, “I’ll find something for 10% of your money,” that’s not an adequate solution. What is it about the 10% that you want to accomplish and going further into that? That’s the advantage that I have over people who have been in this industry for a long time.

Why is it important for you? What do you see as the benefit of simplifying things for people? Why is simplicity important?

People need to understand what’s going on. They need to understand, learn and remember what you’re saying and how things work. It’s a huge factor in how they live. The way you live has a lot to do with what you know about the world. That has a huge impact on the way you live. People need to understand those things. Plus, there’s a lot of chaos and confusion out there. A lot of people don’t know the details of things.

It's not about the percentage is not about the rate of return. It's about working with individuals who can listen to you and who could implement things that truly matter to you. Click To Tweet

If you could break it down, it’s very satisfying to take something hard or complex, break it down and then make it simple to understand. It creates momentum. In my shoes, it’s good to know that I can work with a client. They’re all over the place financially and we can solve a problem. It’s important. If you’re working with a professional, they need to make sure that they’re making things very simple for you and not making things more complex or confusing.

What did it feel like to you when you took the WHY Discovery, it came up with Simplify and you started to read about it? How did that feel for you?

I was surprised but not really. There were 10 or 20 questions. I was going through each one. When I got the result, I was like, “Is that who I am?” When I thought about it further after that, I was like, “That does make sense.” I’ve done many podcasts where we finished recording. For example, we will be talking about Infinite Banking like how we were talking about it and the host will say, “It makes a lot of sense. You broke it down. I remembered everything you said. It’s very clear.” It does align with making things simple. It is what I expected.

You have one of the rarest Whys. Simplify is one of the rarest. It’s fascinating to me because people with your Why get stuff done. They’re so efficient, results-oriented and super valuable to be around. What’s the difference to you in simplifying something simple versus something complex?

It gets stuff done for sure. When you simplify things, you see a clear side of it. One problem I used to have when I couldn’t get things done is because it was too complicated to do. You weren’t even going to do it anymore. When you break it down into simpler terms, you get more things done. That’s very important. It’s getting things done especially in entrepreneurship. You can get a lot of things done efficiently because there’s a lot of work in running a business.

You need to be able to get a lot of small little things done in a day. I don’t know why but time flies by as an entrepreneur because there are so many things that need to be done and broken down. This is something that I do. Not to brag but I’m very good at doing a lot of different things, keeping track of clients, business plans, retirement accounts and taking care of my immediate family, my parents and things like that. There’s a lot going on.

I have to be able to do a lot of things in a day. One thing I do is I have systems. I have everything on a calendar. Every morning, I go into the calendar and write out each task one by one. After I complete it, I highlight it. That way, I could see what’s done. It also creates momentum to get more things done. It’s a task as simple as sending an email to this person all the way to finalizing an analysis for a client.

It varies and there are different degrees. I typically put the easier ones on top. That way, I can go through them quicker. I’ve got pushback from this. Some people will say it’s better to put the harder ones on top like the saying, “Swallow the frog first.” Test out different things. It’s going to be different for you. Those are some of the things that have worked for me. I like making things simpler. Life is already complicated as it is.

It’s great for the readers to get to experience somebody that has the Why of Simplify because there’s only 4% of the population that has your Why. People with your Why are super valuable to have on a team. People that overcomplicate things are not as valuable to have on a team because they make it so complex that the only person that can do anything with it is them. If you were to start to build your messaging, marketing and branding, do you think it would be valuable for your clients to know that your Why is to Simplify?

 

BYW S4 20 Sarry | Whole Life Insurance
Whole Life Insurance: It’s very hard to predict sales because you never know what’s going on in the customer’s mind. You can’t control that, but you can control things that lead up to that. There are predictable things that you could do that will give you the results you’re looking for.

 

It’s important because one thing that I do and I’ve seen success with through working with clients is that I constantly reiterate both of our Whys. It’s why I’m helping them and why they are implementing too. Along the line, it’s very easy for people to forget, “What are we doing here? Why are we having this financial?” That happens a lot. People need reassurance. It’s providing them the reassurance of what’s going on and why. I’ve noticed that when you start with Why like Simon Sinek’s Start With Why, it lays out the foundation for the following things.

I’ve noticed too that even subconsciously, I’ve chosen titles of videos and podcasts to listen to and watch based on the titles. Instead of me saying why I became a financial planner, it’s going to be more appealing than how I became a financial planner or what financial planners do. It’s the most powerful word in English or any language with the word why. It’s the reason why you do things. From a marketing perspective, it’s the most intriguing part of the marketing message.

It’s especially if you take it and apply it to, “Why should I choose you?” As a prospect, I’m sitting here and I meet you for the first time. What’s going through my mind is, “Why should I choose Sarry?” There are a lot of financial advisors right there. They’re everywhere just like anything. They’re trying to figure out why should they choose you. If you don’t tell them then they won’t know.

The better able you are to articulate why you do what you do and what it is you believe, the more you will be able to attract those people that believe what you believe. Your ideal client is somebody who wants it simple and easy to understand and doesn’t want all the fluff and the extra. They just want simple and easy-to-follow instructions on, “What do I need to do? I want to make sure it’s getting done. I want to know what’s going to get me the results that I want.”

There are people who think like you. You’re most likely to attract those people.

They believe what you believe. If you’re able to articulate it, say it and use it in your messaging, marketing, podcast and when you sit down with your prospect, it instantly cuts to the chase to why they should choose you. You sat down and said, “I believe that success happens when we make things simple and easy to understand, don’t overcomplicate it and go directly to the point. Let’s figure out what you want, how to get there and what you need to get there. That’s when we’re going to have success. That’s what you can get from me.”

“I’m not going to give you all the fluff, try to sell you stuff you don’t need and try to get you to buy whatever. It’s going to be simple and easy to understand.” We have a completely different conversation than, “I wonder what this guy is going to try to sell me. He’s going to throw me into insurance because he makes the most money or whatever the story is.” We create a narrative. It’s your ability to cut to the chase and tell me what it is you believe.

We didn’t get to do your How and What yet but I’m going to take a stab at what your How and What is based on our conversation. Your Why, which we already know is to make things simple and easy to understand. How you do that is by making sense of complex and challenging concepts. Do you feel more successful when you’re able to show somebody a path or when you’re able to help them in whatever way they need help?

It’s the path for sure.

 

When you break it down into more simple terms, you get more things done. Click To Tweet

 

Ultimately, what you bring is the right way to get predictable and consistent results. Your Why is to make things simple and easy to understand so that everybody can do it. How you go about doing that is by making sense of the complex challenges that they’re facing and solving their problems. Ultimately, what you bring is the right way to get consistent and predictable results. You bring them the path and the map to get where they want to go. How does that feel to you?

I feel like I know more about myself now from hearing those things.

Does that feel right though?

It does. I do agree that it does make sense. I noticed it too. I’m laying out the path and solution. It creates more reassurance for everybody, for myself and for other people that I work with. I’ve thought about it. For example, what if I were to be a consultant for a company or a sales organization? It’s very hard to predict sales because you never know what’s going on in the customer’s mind. You can’t control that but you can control things that lead up to that. It’s the number of times you reach out to somebody and the length of time you speak to people. There are predictable things that you could do that will give you the results you’re looking for.

I have one last question for you. What has been the best piece of advice you’ve ever gotten or the best piece of advice you’ve ever given?

The best piece of advice I’ve gotten was from my mentor, Mark Willis. He says, “Never take anything personally.” There are a lot of emotions out there in the world and a lot of people could take things. I do sometimes take things personally but having the ability to not take things personally will put you ahead, especially in an entrepreneurial mindset. Getting ahead is never taking anything personally. There are so many other things going on in the world and other people’s minds that for the majority of the time, it’s not intended for you or at you. It’s having that mindset of never taking anything personally.

If there are people reading and they want to get ahold of you, contact you, work with you or listen to your podcast, what’s the best way for them to get in touch with you?

If you’re looking to take a different approach financially and you have an open mind, you can go to ThinkingLikeABank.com. You can download a free eBook there, schedule an appointment with me and check out our podcast called Thinking Like a Bank. All that is from the website.

Sarry, thank you so much for being here. I enjoyed getting to know you and meeting another Simplify.

Me too. Thanks, Gary. Thanks for having me on.

Thank you so much for reading. If you have not yet discovered your Why, you can do so at WHYInstitute.com with the code Podcast50. If you love the show, please don’t forget to subscribe below and leave us a review and rating so that you can be part of bringing the Why and the WHY.os to the world. Thank you.

 

Important Links

 

About Sarry Ibrahim

BYW S4 20 Sarry | Whole Life InsuranceSarry Ibrahim is financial planner and member of the Bank On Yourself Organization. He helps real estate investors, business owners, and full time employees grow safe and predictable wealth regardless of market conditions using a financial strategy that has been around for over 160 years. Sarry started this journey when he was in grad school completing his MBA. He worked for companies like Allstate, Blue Cross Blue Shield, Cigna Healthspring, and Humana before founding Financial Asset Protection, a financial services firm that focuses on one sole concept; the Bank On Yourself Concept, also known as the Infinite Banking Concept.

Categories
Podcast

Simplifying The Joy Of Living With Barry Shore

BYW 19 | The Joy of Living

Sometimes, the secret to the joy of living is as simple as sharing a smile. For Barry Shore, a SMILE means Seeing Miracles In Life Everyday. Barry is The Joy of Living podcast host and author of The JOY of Living: How to Slay Stress and Be Happy. He joins Dr. Gary Sanchez to enlighten us on the power of words and the simple secret to living life to the fullest. Barry also shares personal anecdotes of overcoming challenges life has thrown his way and helping others do the same. Your words matter. When you recognize that and extend that power, you will be unstoppable, and you can go MAD (Make A Difference). Learn more of Barry’s fun and inspiring acronyms and understand his WHY of Simplify by tuning in!

Watch the episode here:

Listen to the podcast here:

Simplifying The Joy Of Living With Barry Shore

We go beyond talking about your Why, helping you discover and live your Why. If you’re a regular reader, you know that every episode, we talk about one of the nine Whys and we bring on somebody with that Why so you can see how their Why has played out in their life. We’re going to be talking about a very rare Why, the Why of simplify.

If you have this Why, you are one of the people that makes everyone else’s life easier. You break things down to their essence, which allows others to understand each other better and see things from the same perspective. You are constantly looking for ways to simplify, from recipes you’re making at home to business systems you’re implementing at work. You feel successful when you eliminate complexity and remove unnecessary steps.

I’ve got a great guest for you. He is known as the Ambassador of JOY. Barry Shore is a mental health activist, philanthropist, multi-patent, holding entrepreneur, speaker, author, podcaster and former quadriplegic who is swimming around the world. The Joy of Living is heard globally by hundreds of thousands and has over 3 million downloads. His latest book, The JOY of LIVING: How to Slay Stress and Be Happy is available on Amazon and Apple Books.

After a rare disease paralyzed Barry from the neck down, he created the Joy of Living Institute, a platform that teaches people to live in joy, no matter the situation. The Keep Smiling Movement has reached multiple celebrities and distributed millions of Keep Smiling cards worldwide. ChangeBowl is a philanthropic platform featured in Oprah’s Magazine. Barry, welcome to the show.

Good day, beautiful, bountiful, beloved mortal beings and good-looking people. Gary, how can I make the categorical statement that all the tens of thousands and not hundreds of thousands of people that will be reading this are all good-looking? If they tuned in to your session of Why then by definition, they’re always looking for and finding the good. That’s a definition of a good-looking person, looking for and finding the good.

That’s a great way to define that. Barry, for our audience, there was a lot to unpack there. Where are you?

We can talk about geographically, physically, mentally and spiritually. Geographically, my wife and I have decamped on Venice Beach, California, right by the water. After years of living here, we moved to Henderson, Nevada. Anybody scratching the head would say, “You left Venice Beach to move to Henderson, Nevada, outside of Las Vegas. Why?”

SMILE: Seeing Miracles In Life Everyday Click To Tweet

I can tell you three things. Number one, the entire structure of where we lived in the Los Angeles area, especially Venice Beach, has changed because of politics. There are hundreds of people living on the streets and the beach within yards of our multimillion-dollar homes. After all of this happened, I said to my wife, “Why be here?” In addition to that fact, my son and wonderful daughter-in-law and two young grandsons moved to Henderson, Nevada, the previous year.

We had every Why to move so we did. I made a completely new place, which is fascinating. We’re talking about being in one place for decades with all our family and friends around. We decided to decamp because the new Why was far more entrancing. At the age of 73, I said, “How wonderful. Let’s move.” Isn’t that a great way of getting a new perspective on life? Physically, we’re here. Mentally, I and my wife would agree that I’m in the best place mentally than I’ve ever been in my life. That happens on a daily basis. I’m better now than the day before because that’s what I live with. I live with growth.

Spiritually, it is the same thing. I am oriented towards making sure I’m ever striving forward in my spiritual life which, God-willing and thank God, touches hundreds of thousands of people and millions of people around the globe with our Joy of Living Program, our podcast, our books, our Keep Smiling cards and the things that we do.

I’ve been blessed to be a conduit of good, what I call a COG or a Child Of God. Thank you for asking. I also want to mention that in everything we do, we work with the three fundamentals of life. The three fundamentals are, number one, life has a purpose. When you live a purpose-driven life, you can have good number two. Number two is good. You can go MAD. MAD is an acronym that stands for Make A Difference. If you lead a purpose-driven life, you make a difference in the world, Gary.

Number three is to unlock the power and the secrets of everyday words in terms. The simplest example. Your show with me is being carried over the internet, that magical, mystical, mythical platform that’s touched by everybody around the world. If you ask anybody, what does www stand for? Variably, it has to do with the internet.

In our world, the world of the positive, purposeful, powerful and pleasant www stands for What a Wonderful World. What is a word? Everybody reading, when you see www, you’d think, “What did he say? What a wonderful world.” You have a whole different outlook. You have a smile on your face. You say, “Where did I hear that? Dr. Gary Sanchez’s show about Why. He had this crazy guy on, Barry Shore. He is talking about joy in life.”

Whenever you hear www, what a wonderful world, right away, you think of that song. Remember that song by Louis Armstrong? You hear the opening bars of that great song, What a Wonderful World and what do you do right away? You smile. You can’t help it. Smile is one of the most important words you could ever internalize, utilize and leverage in life because SMILE stands for Seeing Miracles In Life Every Day. What a way to live. How do you like that, Gary?

I love it. I love your energy and I love the way you simplified things down to three things. Let’s go back, Barry. Take us back in your life. Where were you born? Where did you grow up? What were you like as a kid? Let us learn about you.

BYW 19 | The Joy of Living
The Joy of Living: If we were using the leverage of value, how do you find the value you can add? Show people the value, and you attract them. It’s called the law of attraction.

As fascinating, interesting and robust as I am now. At least my mother would say that. She’s the one who writes all my introductions and she’s in heaven. She passes them down through the heavenly host. Thank God I was raised in a place called Boston, Massachusetts. I’ll even fall into a Boston accent at some point. I was raised outside of Boston called Brookline, Massachusetts in a very wonderful, loving home.

Thank God I had a father who worked hard and a mother who was loving. I’m the oldest in the family. I have two younger sisters. We’re all close. Both my parents have passed away. It was a wonderful existence. I share with you the best part because most of my life has been involved with the business. I want to use this time to talk about business because it is part of my Why.

I have certain very important beliefs about business that is critical for people to understand. Number one, the word business is fascinating. How do you spell business? I was taught this when I was twelve years old. In the word business, the U comes before the I. Business is built on service. Most people don’t learn this until their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s or 80s.

Business is built on service. Service is the key to life. Click To Tweet

Service is the key of life. It doesn’t matter if you’re a dentist, a lawyer or an Indian Chief. Service is the key to life. Business, the word itself, shows us. The U comes before the I. I learned this at the age of 9, 10 or 11, growing up in Boston. Anybody can google it, look it up. It’s in the Northeast part of the United States of America. In the wintertime, it snows. Sometimes you have real deep snow.

When I was growing up, we didn’t have internet. You listen to the radio and say, “No school.” We didn’t sit around and play video games. We didn’t have them. We play and say, “I’m going to wait and sleep the rest of the day.” It was a time to go out, shovel snow and make money. What a wonderful way to live because you get exercise.

It was instructive for me because here’s what we needed to do. Ages 9, 10, 11, you go up and down the street with your boots on and get warm inside and a snow shovel. You knock on your neighbors’ doors, your neighbors. What are you going to do? You’re going to negotiate. Imagine being a 9, 10 or 11-year-old, negotiating with a householder, “I want $10.” He wants to give $5 and we settle somewhere, say $7 or $8, depending. You shovel and you’re working hard and good. Every once in a while, they give you a cup of hot chocolate. You made money.

Here’s what gets fun, Gary. I realized, “I could shovel maybe 7, 8 driveways before I get tired and go home. I can make $50, $60.” That’s a lot of money to a kid, especially in the 1950s but it got even better. My father said, “You have a lot of friends. Why don’t you get 2 or 3 of your friends and you go and get the jobs? If you get them, say, an $8 job, you give them $5 or $6, you make $2 or $3 and you’re leveraging your time.”

The bane of existence for most people is your time is limited. I don’t care if you’re charging $1,000 an hour as a lawyer, it doesn’t matter. You’re only able to negotiate your time. That’s why lawyers raise their rates. If you can leverage other people’s activities so that everybody wins, I did that. I had five friends and I got them the jobs. They had to do anything other than a shovel.

It ended up getting up to $10 for a driveway. I gave them $7, while I made $3. We’re shoveling another 30 driveways and I’m still shoveling some myself. I’m making real money, $120 sometimes. It didn’t snow every single day. When it did, it was delightful because I had money that I could choose to do what I wanted with.

That’s the whole essence for me about business. I’ve kept it going for 60-plus years. It’s finding more simple, direct ways of utilizing and leveraging time and energy so that everyone wins. This is the key. Everyone wins. It wasn’t that I got $10 and I gave them $2. It was the ability to create win-win situations. The householder won because they got their driveway and stairs shoveled. My friends won because they got money. They didn’t have to do anything. They don’t have to knock on doors and negotiate. I won because I’m helping them and making money. That’s real WWW, What a Wonderful World.

BYW 19 | The Joy of Living
The Joy of Living: When you have skills, it doesn’t matter what’s going on because markets move all the time. It’s the nature of life, the nature of business.

For the audience, Barry went through and did the WHY.os Discovery instead of the WHY Discovery. He came up with his Why to simplify things so that they’re easy to understand. How he does that was by finding better ways. Ultimately, what he brings is a way to contribute and add value to people around him. We saw that perfectly in that story. You simplified it down to a few things. You found a better way by getting your friends to participate with you and leverage your time. What you brought was a way for everyone to win.

May I share another story? Anybody who knows anything about America, look up Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox. I grew up in Boston. Where we lived, I could walk to Fenway Park. It was 3 miles. As a kid, a friend of mine’s family ran the concession for selling scorecards outside of Fenway Park. At the ages of 12, 13 and 14, I was selling scorecards in front of Fenway Park. You got pictures in 1960, 1961, 1962. The Red Sox weren’t what they are now. People didn’t go. Maybe this stadium is only half full.

Here’s where it gets fun. I’m selling a newspaper with a scorecard in the front and it sells for $0.08. People are busy going into the game. They give you a dime. Most of the time, they didn’t ask for the two pennies back. I made $0.02 for the paper and another $0.02. I’m vocal, selling, “Scorecards.” I have this great corner because I was out there.

There was this amazing guy who was probably 72, 73 at the time and I’m 12, 13. He’s sitting there with a large cart, about 6 feet long, 4 feet wide with roasted peanuts in bags on it. He’s sitting on a milk crate. He is an old black guy and I’m standing, doing things. He said, “Kid, come over here.” I come over. I said, “Yes, sir,” because that’s how I was raised.

The best way to learn something is to teach it. Click To Tweet

He said, “Let me hear what you’re talking.” I said, “Scorecards.” He said, “That’s very nice. You have a good voice. I like what you do but where’s the value? You’re not telling people what you do. Let me show you.” He said, “Peanuts a dime, 3 for a quarter, $0.15 in the ballpark.” He said, “I want you to tell them. How much is the scorecard in the ballpark?” I said, “$0.15.”

He goes, “Scorecard. Get your scorecard here. $0.08 here, $0.15 in the ballpark. You’re giving value and people will be attracted to you.” This is the word he used. “People will be attracted to you. You were running after people. They’re going to come to you.” His name was Elijah. I like that. He was a prophet and he helped me. We went together for almost three years.

I owned that corner because I was the best. It was the best corner. In two hours of selling, I would make over $40. I was having fun. All the people at the ballpark knew me so I got to go to most of the games for free. I saw dozens, if not hundreds, of Red Sox games. It was great.

Here is where it gets fun. I told my father the story and he said, “That’s great. Wonderful. Let’s add value. When people get your scorecard, how do they keep score?” I said, “They write down.” He said, “Do they always carry a pencil with them?” “I don’t know.” “Let’s do this.” We went out. We bought a bunch of pencils. We bought 20, 30 pencils and they’re regular long. He cut them in half like the little pencils you had at miniature golf courses.

He took a pencil, cut it in half and the pencil cost a nickel. We sold each half for a nickel. He turned a nickel into a dime but it wasn’t just that we turned a nickel into a dime. He told me about the gross margin, which is 50%. You didn’t make 100%. You made a 50% gross margin. What did you do? You gave real value. I said, “Get your scorecard, $0.08 here, $0.15 in the ballpark and a pen. Would you like a pencil with that?” “Yeah. How much is it?” “$0.10 here.” “Here’s a quarter or $0.20.”

We were using the leverage of value. How do you find the value that you can add? As Elijah told me, show people the value. You attract them. It’s called the law of attraction. Add value wherever you can, as my father did with, “Let’s give them pencils.” How wonderful. Everybody wins, the person who’s using it, me and what a wonderful world, www. Those are lessons I learned from the ages of 9 to 14 and it stood me in good steps.

I’ve done many businesses throughout my career. Some of them are spectacular successes and some of them hello, human. It’s the ability to always simplify. What can you do to make it as easy as possible for people to work with you? As we say in the sophisticated, how do you remove barriers to entry, not for your competition but for people who want to work with you?

Even in competition, I’ve learned a great lesson much later in life. It’s called co-opetition. I learned this at the University of Hard Knocks. You oftentimes will compete with people and those same people, you should look as collaborators. When you were a dentist, I don’t know if you did general dentistry but maybe there was another dentist that 1 mile away who was a specialist in pediatrics. Together, you can channel business to each other. Sometimes you collaborate sometimes you compete but it’s the ability to be open to it called co-opetition.

BYW 19 | The Joy of Living
The Joy of Living: CREATE: Causing, Rethinking, Enabling All To Excel

You grew up and went to high school in Boston. Did you go off to college?

I was a very good, young Jewish guy. I went to the University of Massachusetts in Amherst. Here’s where it gets fun. After my junior year, I was a college dropout.

You and Steve Jobs.

College is interesting, nice and fun but I have wanderlust. I wanted to do something. This was 1969, 1970, around that era. It was the era of the hippies, things and growing on. I got a one-way ticket to Europe. You could do that in those days. I got landed in London. They let me in for only 30 days. They said, “We don’t want you here. Get out.”

I went to a place called Amsterdam, which was the crossroads of the world in those days. All over the world, people were coming through Amsterdam, from the Orient, from Africa, from Latin America, everywhere. I was in the middle of it. I got involved with a nice group of people. We had a little commune. How do you survive?

I had very little money and so did everybody else. We got together. We thought of things to do and we did. Out of that came a business three years later when I went back to the United States. An interesting thriving business. I’ll describe it very quickly. Imagine, let’s say a 9×12 Oriental Belgian rug that had a huge stain in someplace in it. It was sold at the flea markets. They had hundreds of these things. We would buy them for pennies. You buy a big 9×12 rug for $1 or $2, bring it back to our little commune.

We had eleven people. One of the people there was this interesting woman. She was skilled and said, “We cut this, do this. We put a back on it and make a pillow.” Imagine a carpet pillow. How about a carpet bag? How about a coat? How about a hat? We sold it there in Amsterdam. We made money so we could all live, do what we do and travel around and all over Europe for a year.

It’s choice, not chance, that determines your destiny. Click To Tweet

It was amazing. I said, “I feel like going back to America.” I bought a big container full of these things. I went back to Boston. Through a friend of a friend, I found somebody who also was a genius at doing this. She was a wonderful woman. She hired people and we started making bags, coats and pillows. We hung out a great sign on a place called Newbury Street in Boston.

It is a great story. Newbury Street, look it up. It is the most fashionable street in Boston for shopping. Even then, it was the hip place. Within a couple of months, I was written up in Boston Magazine and this stuff, carpet bag, carpet pillows. We had this little shop which was all Oriental rugs everywhere. It was fun. It was truly wonderful. Anybody who was a celebrity in those days who came to Boston came to the shop.

Cheech & Chong were famous at the time. They bought stuff for all their Hollywood friends and people who were ordering. We were part of this whole trend in America called the boutique business. This was where we went. We had a boutique. We were invited to do a booth in a boutique show in New York City. I said, “Yeah, of course.” They have a $3,000 booth but they gave it to her for $1,000.

We’re going to go. Myself and this nice lady, my head seamstress, we loaded up two cars. We were driving from Boston down to New York. It was a Saturday night in June 1972. We’re cruising down, getting ready to go to Manhattan for the big boutique show. Macy’s was going to be there. They have already expressed interest. A lot of them. Real people.

It was about midnight. We were traveling 60 miles an hour in the Volkswagen Beatle. Somebody fell asleep at the wheel of their big Buick car. The car hurdled over the median and smashed the Volkswagen Bug I was in and squashed it like a bug. I’m still here but it was touch and go for that night and the next day.

Thank God I didn’t pass away. My femur, my thigh bone, the hardest bone on the body to break, was smashed in many places. My leg was swinging like a gate. I didn’t pass out, thank God. The police and the fire department were amazing. They showed us pictures weeks later of what the car looked like. It’s not possible to survive but I did.

I’ll make the story very short. There was an operation that was done to put in special titanium plates and titanium screws into my thigh bone to put everything together. Over the next two and a half years, I had 2 more operations to remove a plate and 10 screws. I used that time to do what I call PTL, which saved my life. Prayer, Therapy and Love.

A lot of prayer, a lot of therapy, 2, 3 sometimes 4 hours a day of half a yoga and massage. I had friends that came by and love that was showered upon me. It took time. It was a process, not an event but looking at me, you can’t even see scars. They were picking glass out of my face for two days. I never limped. I did not limp after that.

I was, in a true sense, reborn. People call it near-death experience but I call it near life because when you get that close to not being here, I call it near life. You taste the essence of what it means to live exuberantly. Due to that, I made a renewed dedication to living life to the full in the most positive, purposeful, powerful, pleasant way that I could. That’s one story.

We’ll do another one. This show is very little about Barry Shore, nice guy that he is and even very little about Gary Sanchez, great guy that he is. This show is about you. It’s all about you becoming the best you. If these stories help or the information helps, everybody should be doing the Why.os because when you are the best you, you make the world a better place. You build more bridges of harmony. You create more joy, happiness, peace and love in the world. We need you. You make a difference. You are a MAD man or woman, Make A Difference.

You went through all the therapy, the PTL. You got yourself healthy again. Where did you go from there? Did you continue in that business? Did you end up selling it and doing something different?

That business, unfortunately, couldn’t be on because for the next two and a half years, I was out of business essentially. I said, “What do you want to do?” “I want to close loops.” I said, “I have time.” The good Lord said, “Mr. Shore, you got two and a half years. Do something with the time.” I went back to university. I only had one more year to go. I said, “I’ll go back. I’ll graduate.”

BYW 19 | The Joy of Living
The Joy of Living: Learn to love DOG POOP: Doing Of Good Power Of One Person

While I was in Amsterdam, I did attend a place called the Vrije University, which is very famous in Europe. There’s a number of them in Germany, as I’ve been in Amsterdam. It’s a great school and was free. I also studied while I was there. I went back and I got a double degree from the University of Massachusetts, which had opened up their first satellite campus in Boston. Before, it was always in Amherst. The University of Massachusetts is a very well-respected prestigious university of the United States of America with multiple old campuses and medical schools.

The first year they opened in Boston, I went and graduated double degree high in my class. I was looking to see, “What am I going to do?” Thank God I had a wonderful, loving family who tolerated me. I was taking the time to think about what I wanted to do. My mother had worked for a diamond dealer before she was married and even after she married for the first year before they had me. We were close to that family. My mother said, “Why don’t you think of doing something in diamonds?” I went to speak to her former employer, Mr. Guinness. He said, “You should go to a place called the GIA.”

GIA means nothing to most people. GIA stands for the Gemological Institute of America. It is the most famous school of its kind in the world. Everybody who’s anybody in the giant diamond or gem business goes to the GIA. When I went there in 1977, it was a small school. It was known only to insiders in the diamond business and some of the gem businesses.

They accepted me because I graduated college. I took the program. The program was very intensive. It was 8 hours a day, 5 days a week for 6 months at a time but I wanted to do it. I was good enough, great at what I did and they said, “Barry Shore, we love you. We’d like you to teach the program. You’d be 1 of 2 instructors.” The best way to learn something is to teach it.

As I learned from Elijah and my father in leveraging and shoveling snow, you teach and learn more. It was wonderful. While I was there, two wonderful things happened to me in my life that changed me entirely. One was I became close friends was my best friend of the world at the time. His name was Frank Bonham. Together, we had decided we were going to leave the Institute after a few years.

HEALTH: Helping Everyone Achieve Life Through Happiness Click To Tweet

We were both there for almost three years. We decided to go out on our own and become diamond dealers. While I was there, I met and married the true diamond and jewel of my life, my wife, Naomi. It was the greatest possible move. It moved me from Boston where it snowed in the winter. You’re in your twenties. Who needs cold? You didn’t need a visa to come to Los Angeles.

I lived in Beverly Hills and the school was a couple of hours away. I drove across the country in my Volkswagen bus, which is not the same one but similar to what I used traveling around Europe. I’m living in Los Angeles and warm and loving and close friends and getting married. We’re going to go into business. I’ll make it short because from 1979 to 1981, Frank and I because of my personality and our skills, the market was booming. We bought and sold over $100 million dollars worth of diamonds in less than three years.

We made a lot of money, had a lot of fun and it was amazing. Before anybody gets jealous in any way whatsoever and say, “Look at these guys.” At the end of 1980 and by the middle of 1981, at least 80% of everything we made, we lost. It’s not because we made mistakes. The market crashed. An example, a diamond that would cost $50,000 for a 1-carat diamond in January of 1980 and we were buying and selling. By the end of 1980, it was down to $8,000.

We had a lot of inventory because we were moving. We made a lot of money. We’re selling. Things happened. You need to go through stuff in order to learn real lessons of when to buy, when to sell, when to lead, like a famous song by Kenny Rogers. It was fabulous. My wife’s still with me. My best friend, Frank, is still around. We ended up not having our business anymore because we didn’t have sufficient funds to keep going. The market was down for many years but it was quite the ride. We went through a lot of experiences and I learned a lot.

You went to the top and ended up back at the bottom.

We continue to move up. While we were doing that ride of $100 million, we had built the first and only limited partnership in California that allowed people to buy gemstones and put them in the partnership. We did some very creative things. As you said, simplify. We took an arcane idea, simplified it and said, “Look what you can do.” People say, “That’s interesting.” It was great.

When you have skills, it doesn’t matter what’s going on because markets move all the time. It’s the nature of life, the nature of business. It’s all about service and that’s why we’re here. Was there stress? Yes but part of wonderful living is how do you deal with stress. I had been through a deadly automobile accident. That was real stress. This is just money.

How did you end up paralyzed?

Let’s go on to this. Here’s the story. Let’s fast forward from the 1980s. I tried a couple of businesses. Some of them were moderately successful. Imagine the following. Standing up in the morning, hale and hearty, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound and that evening, being in the hospital, totally completely paralyzed. It was not from an automobile accident. It was not a spinal injury.

It was a rare disease that I had never heard of the day before that took over my body and rendered me a quadriplegic. That’s what it’s called. I was completely, totally paralyzed. I was 144 days in the hospital. I was two years in a hospital bed in my own home. I couldn’t turn over by myself. Four years in a wheelchair. I had braces on both my legs, my hips to my ankles. Think of Forrest Gump completely with those big braces. That was progress.

Thank God, now I’m able to be vertical and ambulatory with the help of a seven-foot walking wand. I’m a triped, not a biped. I still can’t walk up a stair or a curb by myself. I have help 12 hours a day, 7 days a week but you hear my voice, positive, purposeful, powerful and pleasant. It’s all because of that one word I told you, SMILE.

SMILE stands for Seeing Miracles In Life Every day. I have to tell you a quick story. My eight-year-old niece comes over to me and says, “Uncle Barry, can we spell smile? SMIEL.” I thought about it. It sounds the same. I said, “Why not?” I asked her, “How come?” She says, “It would stand for Seeing Miracles In Everyday Life.” Out of the mouth of babes.

BYW 19 | The Joy of Living
The JOY of Living: How to Slay Stress and Be Happy

What was she doing, Gary? She was creating the world she wanted to live in. CREATE is a wonderful acronym. We love working with words and acronyms. CREATE stands for Causing Rethinking, Enabling All To Excel. This is what you excel at. What you built with the WHY.os is enabling people to rethink and understand that you are in charge of your own programming. We call it normal linguistic programming. You’re in charge of your own thoughts.

When you do that, you can understand the six most important words that I teach people whenever they listen. These are choice, not chance, that determines your destiny. It’s how you respond to any given situation. Do you think it was easy being paralyzed for years? No. Did I respond by being bitter and angry? No. Did I think I’d ever even move again? In the two years, I was in a hospital bed, unable to move by myself or turn over, my vision and abilities were all focused on sitting up and putting my feet over the side of the bed. That was it. That’s what I wanted. It took me years but I did it.

How did you do it?

I call upon PTL, Prayer, Therapy and Love. I’m talking about deep prayer for myself, people that cared about me, still care about me and still say prayers for me. To other people, I look like I’m “handicapped” and therapy. We hired therapists to come to the house who would move my legs and my arms, massage this, push and try everything and anything to find mechanisms to get things happening again.

Eventually, the therapy and love paid off. Personally, it’s much easier for me to give love than receive enormous amounts of love. When people tell me by the dozen, by the hundreds, when they heard and came visiting, “We love you,” it makes you feel truly humble. It’s much easier for me to say, “I love you,” to receive it, incorporate it and allow their honest, caring feelings to suffuse my physical being and energize it. I am not just a believer. I know for a fact that love creates healing.

I have an acronym for HEALTH, which is Helping Everyone Achieve Life Through Happiness. That’s real health when you have that flow. Bitter and angry are constricting. Love is expansive. This is for me. I’ve been in lots of stuff. I’ll tell you another thing about therapy because you might find it of interest. I have a friend. We have help 12 hours a day, 7 days a week.

When I was back home after the hospital, 144 days, sometimes, they get me into a wheelchair and take me out for a stroll on the street. One of my neighbors, who we’ve known for years, comes over and says, “I heard what happened. It’s okay. I got to tell you something. I’ll have you up and walking within a year.” I’m listening to anybody. I’m still a quad at this point. He said, “I am the best aquatic therapist in America.”

Life and death are in the hands of the tongue. You can hurt so deeply with words, and you can rise up. Click To Tweet

How do I know that was true? It’s because he told me. I love people who are confident in what they do. Gary, you were a dentist for a long while. You didn’t go and say, “I’m an okay dentist.” You didn’t ever think that. You’re the best dentist. If you’re not, you’re not going to work on my teeth. I can tell you that.

He’s the best aquatic therapist. I’m in Southern California. We did a lot of outdoors well as indoors but pools in America have a Hoyer lift. It’s a special lift for people that are in wheelchairs, going from the wheelchair into this lift and the lift will pick you up and mechanically move you and put you in the water. Vince, the aquatic therapist, had four people working on me in the water sometimes for an hour and hour and a half at a time, with a flotation device on my legs, belly and arm so I wouldn’t sink and die and kept moving.

We did this 3, 4 times a week because I wanted something to happen. I wanted nerves to be triggered again. After about a year and a half, one day, I was in the water with people helping. I moved my arms over my head and they didn’t move my arms away. I started moving. I moved and interestingly enough, I hit my head against the side of the pool, which was great because that means I moved on my own. I said, “Let me keep doing this.”

I kept going back and forth in the pool. I was able to swim 98 minutes without stopping. They were timing me. I was in ecstasy. I swam 1 mile in 98 minutes and that was a breakthrough moment. That was not just a-ha. That was, “I couldn’t do it but I was jumping out of the water.” Imagine the whale breaching and going up high. That’s how I felt. I said, “If I could do it once, I could do it again.”

I started doing it twice a week and then 3 times a week then 4 times, 5 times a week, 6 times because I’m persevering. I am not going to let anything stop me from doing this. Over the course of the next year, it was becoming my routine. I was well-known at the pool. One day, one of my friends I swim with told me about a program. It’s a great form of swimming. I contacted the person who was responsible for it. We saw videos. I’m able to turn on my belly.

I still have flotation devices on my legs because otherwise, I’d stay sink. I was able to turn on my tummy. I have paddles on my hands. Gary, you can see my fingers don’t close. I use a snorkel. I swim on my back. I do backstroke and crawl. I swim 2 miles a day, 6 days a week. I’ve been doing this for more than a dozen years. I have over 8,400 miles that record every half-mile, mile, 2 miles, 3 miles sometimes 4 miles in a day because I’m that dedicated.

My goal is to swim around the world. I’m a mental health activist. The goal is to raise money for mental health situations. We call it Stop the Stigma. Make people aware that mental health is not something you hide from, that you can get help and it can be either cured or work with it. It’s something to be worked on and talked about.

I’m attracting Michael Phelps into my life as my swimming buddy. Together, I’ll swim 2 miles a day, he’ll swim 2 miles a day and we’ll swim 1,000 miles in a year. People will kick in their $0.02 worth. Do you know how you say, “This is my $0.02 worth of something?” I’m in for $0.02, 1,000 miles, $20. We’ll have hundreds of thousands of people giving $20 to raise millions of dollars for mental health situations.

We’ll attract more celebrities to do this and create a whole revolution so that we’re swimming around the world. It’s 24,901 miles around the world. I have 8,400 already but I got 16,000 more to go. We’ll raise awareness. We’ll raise money and have a lot of fun. Barry Shore is swimming around the world. From quadriplegic to swimming around the world. You can do something in your life also. Go MAD. Go make a difference.

Tell us about your book, The JOY of Living. How and when did that come about?

This is something for me. It came about because of lying in bed as a quadriplegic for years and thinking about it. Prior to being paralyzed, I was in business. I created two companies that I sold to other public companies, multimillion-dollar exits at the beginning of the internet, 1997, 1998. I had three US patents. I’m doing stuff.

Due to research into the human condition and being in a human condition, paralyzed, I had a lot of time to think about it. I formulated the 11 Strategies for Learning How to Live, Enjoy Daily, No Matter the Situation. The subtitle is How to Slay Stress and Be Happy. As an example of something deep, I put all of this into my mind. I’m making an analogy. Think of somebody who’s in prison. You don’t have the ability to write things down because they didn’t give you the time about real stuff.

You think about it. You dwell on it. You formulate it and you can see it. You see my hands, Gary. I thank God I can write and type out with two fingers to put it on paper or on-screen what I was thinking about. These eleven strategies are so good because they work like what you do with WHY.os. The reason people flock to you is because WHY.os works. It’s that simple. It’s something that works. That is a benefit to me.

To everybody reading, this show is about you. That’s who you care about. That’s great. You tune in because you care the most in the whole world about you. That’s wonderful. Self-enlightened interest is wonderful. What happened is that I was asked to speak to people because of the story. It’s a great story. I was articulating and writing down. People say I should write a book. I was thinking about it.

BYW 19 | The Joy of Living
The Joy of Living: Your words matter. Recognize the power you have and when you think in good, speak in good, and do good. That energy can never dissipate. It goes around the world.

After a certain amount of years, I made the time to put onto the paper what it is we want you to do, got an editor. Some of the stories I’ve already told you like the story about Elijah, about shoveling snow. They are in the book because the book is not just read about Barry Shore’s life. The first two chapters are about stress, the debilitating aspects of stress and how to leverage stress. You can use stress to your advantage.

How do you build muscle? You need the stress. You’re a doctor, Gary. It’s the ability to understand the stress and then work with the eleven strategies. One of them is SMILE, Seeing Miracles In Life Every Day. I’ll tell you one great story. Here I am at the pool and getting the Hoyer lift into the water. I’m swimming in this special lane they call the handicapped lane, special needs lane.

Next to me is a woman who’s walking in the water. Her name is Aita. At the time, she was 95. I rest once in a while and we’re talking. Over the course of a couple of weeks, she said, “Barry, I love your energy. I’m 95. I’m happy I’m alive but I want to be like you. I want to be happy as you.” I said, “You want to be me?” She said, “Yes. I want to be the best me. Will you work with me?” I said, “I’d be honored to.”

I’m going to tell you two stories. Of the eleven strategies, one of them is called Get Uncomfortable. Barry, I don’t like being uncomfortable. Get uncomfortable. We’re not talking about walking around with a pebble in your shoe all day. We’re talking about talking to Gary Sanchez as a dentist. I teach people how to brush their teeth with their non-dominant hand.

When you brush your teeth, you should do at least two minutes without stopping. When you do it with your dominant hand, it becomes a mindless activity. I don’t mean electric, even though I use electric. It’s good to do it. For me, my left hand’s non-dominant. You got to think about it, especially when you don’t do electric. Even if you do electric, you have to think about it because it’s uncomfortable. That’s the purpose, being mindful.

The strategy Aita liked the most was get uncomfortable. We worked with all eleven but this is the one that resonated with her. You should applaud this because it’s not me. It’s about her. I had the opportunity to sing. I sing to her whenever we see each other. She said, “Barry, sing me a song,” whether we’re in the pool or other places. I sang happy birthday to Aita on her 109th birthday. She’ll tell anybody who listens and say, “He’s the guy who didn’t just keep me alive. He kept me alive and happy.” Don’t take it from me. These strategies work from this book, The JOY of LIVING: How to Slay Stress and Be Happy.

Gary, with your permission, we’re going to do something amazing. To anybody who wants the book, we’re going to give 22% off if you go to BarryShore.com/book. It sells at $15.95 on Amazon. You get it from our site. It’ll be 22% off as a physical or eBook either way. That will include shipping and handling and sales tax because we want everybody to have the book. It sells very well but it’s not just a book of stories. At the end of each chapter, it has simplified takeaways and things to do for your benefit. This is all about you.

The book is a handbook, a guidebook. Don’t take it from me. Take it from Aita. Take it from the story about David. Take the story about Heather. These Keep Smiling cards that we give out are another one of the strategies that saves lives. Dozens of people have not committed suicide. They’ve told me. I’ve gotten emails because they got to a Keep Smiling card from somebody. There was a human touch. I’m going to leave you with one last story if I may because you wanted me to speak about the best advice you’ve ever had, right?

I was about to ask you for the best advice you’ve ever been given or given.

Go forth, live exuberantly, spread the seeds of joy, happiness, peace, and love. Go MAD: Make A Difference. Click To Tweet

Here we go. Everybody put on your seatbelt. Here it is. Learn to love dog poop. Did Barry Shore say, “Learn to love dog poop?” Yes. Remember three things, three fundamentals. Life has a purpose, go MAD. Make a difference and unlock the power and the sequence of everyday words in terms. DOG POOP stands for Doing The Good, Power Of One Person.

One of the strategies is your words matter. You recognize the power that you have. When you think, speak and do good, that energy can never dissipate. It can never be stopped. It goes around the world. It will touch you, your family, your friends and all living beings. We need you more than ever. You need me. You need Gary. Every single one of us.

When you recognize that you have that power, the power of one person reaching out to another, that’s it, doing of good, power of one person. Next time you see dog poop, you say, “I love dog poop.” They’ll say, “What are you talking about?” “I heard Barry Shore and Gary Sanchez. He said you’ve got to love dog poop.” It opens up the ability to have a conversation, doesn’t it, Gary?

For sure. I was waiting to ask you the question that you answered without me asking. While you answered the question I hadn’t yet asked, you brought up something that I had written on my paper here and put a big box around it. That was the power of word choices. I’m curious, have you always focused on the words that bring you energy? Tell us what you believe about word choices.

I have been involved with words since I was below the age of 9, probably even the ages of 4 and 5. I was already involved with books. I was a conversationalist, a storyteller. I was around storytellers. My mother was a great storyteller. My father, Les, I’ll be told some stories and the people they associated with something called the Gin Club.

That doesn’t mean they drank gin. They played gin rummy. They were 5 or 6 couples. They would play cards but the cards were their way of being together as 10 or 12 people and telling stories. Listening to adults or people who were older kids tell stories is always fascinating. When I see the word, words, I look at that and I say, “What is that?” Look at that. Words are so powerful.

In Proverbs, ancient wisdom text, which is the acronym for AWE. AWE stands for Ancient Wisdom Educates. That’s what you say, AWE. Proverbs says, “Life and death are in the hands of the tongue.” That is so important. You can hurt so deeply with words. You can raise up, as I have been benefited by people telling me, “I love you,” when I was from the car accident and paralyzed. Those words penetrated.

If you look at the word, words, if you move the S from the end of the words to the front, it spells a sword. A sword is a very interesting item because a sword can do several things. It cuts. It can be used as an offensive weapon. It can be used as a defensive weapon. A small sword can be called a scalpel. It can be used to heal. It’s the ability to look at this thing called words and understand their power of them.

I’ll leave you with one story. I speak to groups sometimes as few as 50 sometimes as many as 5,200. People ask me, “Where did you find the strength to do this stuff and get through and not be bitter, not be angry and feel power positive, purposeful, powerful and pleasant?” It’s because of my mother. My mother was born more than 100 years ago with a large red wine stain through three-quarters of her face.

Imagine kids in school nowadays. Is bullying something? Yes. We’re cognizant of it, all that stuff. A hundred years ago, bullies were bullies. Kids are kids. It’s amazing to say this. My mother didn’t get through the process that she had this and lived with it. She was beyond it. She learned at some age that the people who made fun of her, that was their problem, not hers.

How adult is that for a kid? How do we know some of this? It’s because as kids, we were growing up so she still kept a lot of friends. She always made friends from high school. Her high school friends would come to the house. We knew them. They say, “This is your mother. This is Frances. What do you want?” That’s who she was.

My mother always wore heavy pancake makeup and stuff because she didn’t want to have it. It was also pockmarked but it’s my mother. When she didn’t have the makeup on, it’s my mother. It wasn’t that she carried a chip. She was free from that. She lived life so fully that it was beside the point. She had the regular stresses of life, family and income but it wasn’t that. I learned very early on, this is my model for living in joy daily, no matter the circumstances.

Barry, if there are people that want to get a hold of you, follow you, learn more about you, how should they best connect with you?

Everybody should. That’s number one, Gary. The best way is to go to www.BarryShore.com. Go there and you’ll see that there’s a free mini-class that we give. The videos are fabulous. Thousands of people tell me this. I’m not saying it. People tell me, “This makes a difference in people’s life.” That’s free. We have a free newsletter. We’re here to serve. We’re here to grow.

We’re building a community called The Joy of Living Community. We’re making it virtually with no barrier to entry. We charge $10 a month, a very small amount because you need to charge something to be able to have people have value but the value of $10 a month, $120 a year. The value is in the thousands because you get a webinar with me. You get the full course, a $197 value. You get a copy of the book for free, a joy package. It’s thousands and thousands of dollars worth of value.

We want people to be in the community because then you learn about dog poop and share it with other people in the community. It’s not limited to the United States. We live in an interconnected global environment that everybody wants to learn how to reduce, mitigate, maybe even eliminate debilitating stress and live in joy daily. Who doesn’t want that in their life? That’s how to contact. www.BarryShore.com. Do it. You’ll be happy. Thank Gary.

Barry, thank you so much for taking the time to be here. I’m looking forward to staying connected as we go on our journeys. I love what you’re doing. Count me in. I’m going to go over there and sign up. Thank you so much for being here and we’ll stay connected.

Can we leave everybody with a blessing? Our blessing from Gary and Barry is to go forth, live exuberantly, spread the seeds of joy, happiness, peace and love. Go MAD. Go make a difference.

I love it. That is so awesome.

Important Links:

About Barry Shore

BYW 19 | The Joy of LivingKnown as the “Ambassador of JOY,” Barry Shore is a mental health activist, philanthropist, multi-patent holding entrepreneur, speaker, author, podcaster, and former quadriplegic who is now swimming around the world! Barry’s podcast, The JOY of LIVING, is heard globally by hundreds of thousands and has over three million downloads.His latest book, The Joy of Living: How to Slay Stress and Be Happy is available on Amazon and Apple Books.

After a rare disease paralyzed Barry from the neck down, he created the JOY of LIVING Institute™ (a platform that teaches people to live in joy, no matter the situation), The Keep Smiling movement that has reached multiple celebrities and distributed millions of “Keep Smiling” cards worldwide, and Changebowl which is a philanthropic platform featured in Oprah’s Magazine.

Categories
Podcast

Nick Kennedy: Making A Significant Rift In The Status Quo

BYW S4 18 | Status Quo

 

Ever since he was young, Nick Kennedy doesn’t believe in following the rules. His rebellious nature pushed him to challenge the status quo and escape the conventional. He wasn’t afraid to put anything to the test and be out of the ordinary. This mindset brought him success and transformed him into an influential leadership coach. But at some point, he has been seen as odd and is often misunderstood. Nick joins Dr. Gary Sanchez to open up about his WHY of being out of the ordinary, inviting everyone to look at life with a fresh set of eyes. He explains how successful leaders should use their unique characteristics as keys to profound self-transformation.

Watch the episode here:

Listen to the podcast here:

Nick Kennedy: Making A Significant Rift In The Status Quo

If you’re a regular reader, you know that every week, we talk about one of the nine why’s and then bring on somebody with that why so you can see how their why has played out in their life. We’re going to be talking about the why of the challenge. If this is your why then you don’t believe in following the rules or drawing inside the lines. You want things to be fun, exciting and different. You rebel against the classic way of doing things. You typically have eclectic friends and tastes because after all, why would you want to be normal?

You love to be different and think differently. You aren’t afraid to challenge virtually anyone or anything that is too conventional or typical for your tastes. Pushing the envelope comes naturally to you. I’ve got a great guest for you. His name is Nick Kennedy. Nick is a serial entrepreneur and an executive life coach with over twenty years of experience building successful ventures. After accumulating over 2 million airline miles traveling for work while losing hours of productivity and family time, Nick founded RISE in 2014, a private airline.

RISE created a two-sided marketplace that connected busy business executives with private plane operators to redefine travel to regain control of wasted time. Prior to RISE, Nick began his career as a Business Development Manager for EDS. He then went on to build multiple healthcare-centered businesses. As a coach with over 4,000 hours of experience for high-powered executives, he helps stuck executives become fully integrated spouses, parents and businesspeople.

Nick was named the 2017 EY Entrepreneur of the Year and awarded Dallas Business Journal’s 40 Under 40. He serves as a Capital Factory Mentor and is on the boards of several companies. He has been featured in the New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, D Magazine, Texas Monthly, Dallas News and the Dallas Business Journal. Nick splits his time between Texas and Colorado along with his wife Angela and kids Will, Sam and Jane. Nick, welcome to the show.

It’s great to be here. I feel seen as you were reading off the challenger. You’re spot on there.

Let’s talk about that for a moment. Take us back in your life. Where were you born? What were you like in high school? Where did you grow up? Take us back to those years. Let’s learn a little bit about you.

I was born in Colorado. I lived there until I was 10 or 11 years old and ended up moving out to San Diego, California where I spent from 11 to 12 years old until I was 18. I grew up in two of the most beautiful places in the world. I enjoyed exploring. I’m incredibly curious. I was always pushing the boundaries. My report cards when I was young were like, “Nick talks. He gets good grades but he talks too much. Tell him to be quiet.” It was the way I was born with. I had a lot of things I wanted to share. That turns out to be a great skillset for entrepreneurship.

What were you like? Give us an example of how you thought outside the box. How you didn’t follow the rules and how you were that kid that was “different?”

Honestly, during the time, I didn’t think about why I was doing it. I was annoyed that things weren’t a different way. When I would question them to the powers that be, I wasn’t satisfied with most of the answers. That led me down the path of exploring further why it couldn’t be different. 9 times out of 10, I found the answer. We’ve got thousands of years of human history that have gotten us pretty efficient with how we live our lives.

If you do that enough, you start to find these inefficiencies. That’s where goodness comes from and where entrepreneurs thrive. Entrepreneurship is building a business. It’s a French word. It means bearer of risk. Entrepreneurship is being annoyed with something and thinking about it all the time until you get it fixed. That’s what I was like as a kid. I was curious to understand why things couldn’t be different. It’s the things that particularly annoyed me.

I like that definition. I had not heard that before. Entrepreneurship is being annoyed with something long enough that you can’t stop thinking about it so you have to do something about it.

Entrepreneurship is just being annoyed with something and thinking about it all the time. Click To Tweet

That’s what it breaks it down to. Look at Elon Musk who’s the uber-entrepreneur with $200 billion in net worth. The guy is annoyed with things. I don’t think he’s a particularly healthy individual but that’s what you get when you get the extreme of, “I want something to be different. I’m going to find a way to go do it.” That is what’s so cool about that. Why I associate and identify as an entrepreneur is that’s what moves society forward. Nothing changes until someone gets annoyed enough to go do something about it. We have seen that over and over again.

In my book that came out, I posit that entrepreneurship started 80,000 years ago on the shores of Morocco where these snails live. The locals there on the shores of the beaches of Morocco would take these snail shells, paint them and put holes in them. They found them hundreds of miles inland. The theory is that they were using these to trade with other goods that the tribes further in had. 80,000 years ago, Neanderthals and Homo sapiens roamed the Earth together. The main reason they think Neanderthals died off is that they couldn’t share their resources.

They had bigger brains and bodies. They were stronger. They should have been the dominant race and yet here we are as Homo sapiens. What I’m putting forward is the reason we’re here and Neanderthals have died off is because we learn to share and take risks to go to the tribe down the way that didn’t look, talk or eat the same stuff like us. We said, “You’ve got a little something I need. I’ve got a little something you need. Let’s see if we can work this out.” The third invention of mankind behind the fire and stone tools is entrepreneurship. That’s what led to growth as the human species.

I hadn’t thought of it that way. You finished high school in San Diego. Take us on your journey. Did you go off to college? Did you start into business? Tell us what happened with you?

It’s still in high school. Let’s stay there because that’s the seminal moment in my life. I grew up upper-middle class and had a lot of privileges. When I was 16, my dad was sentenced to 20 years in Federal prison. If you want to put a shock in the system, you take a kid who has been given almost everything and then you tell them, “You got to go get 2 or 3 jobs to help your mom pay rent.” It was a shock. There were lots of trauma and things that I processed over the years. It forced me to reckon with this new position in my life.

I realized everybody’s starting line in life is completely different. I started ahead of the starting line as a White man in America. Some are positioned at the starting line, behind and outside the stadium but we’ve all got these different starting positions. My starting position changed drastically when that happened. I’m incredibly thankful because I got to see these vastly different lives, which was that of someone who didn’t worry for much to, “I don’t know where the next meal is coming from.”

By the grace of God, I got a baseball scholarship to go to a little school in Arkansas called Harding University. I landed in Arkansas in August. It was 120-some degrees. Everybody talked funny. The food is all fried. Everybody had funny haircuts and shotgun racks in their trucks. I grew up in San Diego. I had this long blonde hair. They called me Sunshine. They made me go get my haircut on the baseball team. You could have put me in Belgium and I would have been more at home than I was in Arkansas. Six months later, I met my wife in college. The rest is history. It was a great experience there in Arkansas.

What did you go into for your degree?

I have a Business Management degree with a minor in Finance. I was always driven towards business. That was my background. For all those out there who are wanting to get into business, Harding is a great school. I use about 3% of what I learned in college. You have to go in there and figure out how to navigate your life.

You were playing baseball, met your wife and graduated. You’re off to start your career. Where did your career start?

The only job I got out of college was a job at EDS. It was the famed company or the company that Ross Perot started. I learned two main things there. Number one, I got to witness the legacy of Ross Perot. He had left when I was joining the company but his legacy was large on that company. Few people know this. There’s a book that documented this called On Wings of Eagles. When the fall of the Shah of Iran happened, EDS employees were in Iran digitizing their health records back in the ’70s. That’s what EDS did. They took two EDS employees hostage.

BYW S4 18 | Status Quo
Status Quo: You could have an idea that had never been done before. Given enough resources, opportunity, and luck, you can create a whole new category that didn’t exist before.

 

Jimmy Carter famously tried to negotiate their release and failed. Ross Perot was famous for hiring a lot of Vietnam veterans that had come back. He had put them through a two-year training program and made them computer programmers because he needed computer programmers. He wanted to employ these men and women that were coming back. If you didn’t want to do computer programming, you became part of the security detail.

He ended up hiring and giving a blank check to these commandos to go rescue his employees out of Iran. It’s all documented in On Wings of Eagles. He was that employer. It went beyond profits. It was never less than profits but he felt deeply about what he was doing and who his employees were. Number one, I learned about that from Ross Perot. I was a financial analyst. The second thing I learned was that, if I did that for more than eighteen months, I was going to jump off a tall building.

I could not sit in a cube and know exactly what I was going to be doing on the 13th business day of next month. That was going to drive me nuts as a challenger. Those are the two things I learned from EDS. From there, a good friend said, “I’m going to start this business. Would you care to join?” I said, “Yes, anything to get out of here.” Everybody said, “You shouldn’t do that.” I was warned about it, “Startups are hard.” They were all right.

At the end of the day, I loved it because it opened my eyes to the idea that you could have an idea of something that had never been done before given enough resources, time, opportunity and luck. Any successful entrepreneur admits that they have had luck. You can go create a whole new category that didn’t exist before. I became addicted to the idea that I could go create new things. I got to see a lot of things I wanted to do and didn’t want to do. That became my journey of startups, which I’ve been doing for twenty-plus years.

It sounds like you weren’t a very good employee.

I’m a horrible employee, especially at this point. I’m unemployable. I say that proudly. I take that. I worked hard. I was diligent. I was always at the top but I questioned too much. These corporations thrive on processes. I get it. There are people that do that well. God bless them. We need that in a lot of ways but it’s not what I was designed or called to do. It’s not anywhere close to my why.

You started doing a lot of traveling. In your bio, you mentioned you put in 2 million miles on the airlines. Tell us about that.

Over the course of 10 years building 2 different businesses, I accumulated 2 million miles on American Airlines. I have the Executive Platinum. I was up in the first class 9 out of 10 times. I got all the best that they could give me. For the first year, it was super cool. For the next nine years, it was a beating. Nobody wanted to be involved. The flight attendants, baggage people, check-in people and passengers were frustrated. We take what is one of man’s greatest inventions, the gift of flight and made it miserable. Give us enough time and we will ruin anything.

I’m looking at this situation and going, “This is driving me nuts. I’m gaining weight. I’m unhealthy. I’m not around my friends or family. I get home on Friday night exhausted. I just get enough rest to go back out on the road on Monday.” I don’t know how it is now but at the time, only healthcare and insurance rated lower on the scale of customer satisfaction than airlines. That’s what I was doing. One of the investors in one of the startup businesses had a private plane. I got to experience that.

My eyes were opened to this idea that you could take effectively the same technology, one is a little bit larger and one is a little bit smaller and have a ten-times different experience. When you fly private, you come to the security gate, hit the intercom and tell the tail number you’re flying on. The gate magically opens. You drive right up to the plane. The attendants come out, pop your trunk and get your bags. You get on board and the flight attendant says, “Here’s your almond milk cappuccino, Wall Street Journal and New York Times.”

The pilot briefs you on the weather. It’s this unbelievable experience. You land and there’s a car waiting for you. I got to experience that. I thought, “I want a plane. I floated up on the big boys.” That was my frustration. Now that I had experienced that, I couldn’t go back. There’s a joke in the private aviation industry that private planes and crack cocaine are very similar. The only difference is you have a shot of quitting crack cocaine in the future. You can’t quit once you’ve flown private. That was my problem. I was now addicted to flying private.

Give humans enough time and they can ruin just about anything. Click To Tweet

That led you to then start your own airline.

I looked at buying a plane. The reality is buying a plane is not easy. It’s the easier of the two, which is operating a plane. They were incredibly expensive. I thought, “What if I get a bunch of my friends together? We could do this.” I realized, “I had been doing market research for a decade.” I realized that there were lots of people like me who could afford more than the first class but couldn’t afford to fly private regularly because it’s so expensive to have your own.

I wondered, “What if we could somehow mend those two together?” Right at the time, Airbnb, Uber, Lyft and everything was taking off for this idea that you didn’t have to own the assets. You could sit in the middle and be the two-sided marketplace. I knew for a fact that anybody who flew private wanted to fly private. I knew for a fact that people who flew commercial airlines didn’t want to. The only thing I didn’t know is how did the aviation industry work. I had to figure out how that worked.

What I found out was at the time, the average private plane in America flew between 200 and 300 hours a year. People buy these assets. They sit around and cost a lot of money. I also realized it’s an incredibly low-margin business because it’s mainly airline guys or military guys who come out and want to be in the plane business. They do it because they love it. It’s a passion business for them. I said, “What would it be like for you if I could use your planes that are sitting around and your pilots? I’ll bring you more revenue.” Everybody hung up on me.

They’re like, “You’re insane. This doesn’t work.” Finally, a couple said, “Let’s try this out.” My theory was I would take that plane flying 200 hours, fly 2,000 hours and 10X the revenue on that plane. In exchange, you had to paint the planes with my livery, put your pilots in my uniforms and do all these different things. It turned out to be a home run because shortly thereafter, all the people that hung up on me started calling me back and saying, “How do I get access to this?”

We were driving the revenue for that. My clients on one side, customers and members called it a membership. We had a 97 NPS score. It was unbelievable the experience we were giving them. On the other side, when we would show up to a flight in a new city, we would show up and say, “We’re going to buy X amount of thousands of gallons of fuel. Give us the best price you got.” We created this marketplace immediately. It was crazy how quickly it all come together.

I could just call you. You took somebody’s private plane. How did they feel about you putting 1,800 hours on their plane? Did it matter? Did they value it?

It does a little bit. What’s interesting about planes, to get a little technical is every plane manufacturer designates certain things about the plane and what needs to be checked. It’s X amount of land deeds, hours and all these different things. Once you hit that, you have to do what’s called an overhaul. When you hit the major overhauls, you’re taking an engine apart and putting it back together. They’re several hundred-thousand-dollar operations.

Age and hours on planes are less an issue. The engines we were flying were PT6 engines. Millions of hours are on these things across the world. As long as they’re maintained well, it devalues its sum but it’s like a Land Cruiser. You buy it for $100,000. It decreases to $60,000 but it’s going to stay at $60,000 forever there on out as long as you’re selling in Colorado or wherever you are. That’s what a plane was. I should clarify for the membership, we were selling a flat fee to our members. We were an unscheduled service. It was like an airline. You couldn’t take it whenever or wherever you want it.

We scheduled tourists to specific cities but on our private plane, it was this hybrid between having your own plane wherever. They paid us regardless. They pay us a monthly fee. If they flew one time, they paid us the same thing. If it was ten times, they paid the same thing. We had this recurring revenue. Revenue is gold. Recurring revenue is diamonds. It’s mailbox money that you’ve got coming in regardless. That was a key. It was a huge part of our success to have that consistent revenue.

It was called RISE. What happened to RISE?

BYW S4 18 | Status Quo
Status Quo: Many people could afford more than first-class flying but couldn’t afford to fly private regularly because it’s just too expensive on your own.

 

We ended up selling RISE to a company out in California called Surf Air. It was a similar type of company. The two biggest markets in the country were California and Texas. We were in Texas and they were in California, either we were going to go get them or they’re going to come get us. We had to go through those two areas. I worked out that we sold RISE to them in California.

What happened to you? How long ago was this?

That was the 2017 to 2018 timeframe.

What happened to it?

You take a kid whose dad goes to prison and hang a bunch of shame around his neck. He has opted to do what I did, which is, “I’m going to ensure that you never get an edge on me.” I felt like I couldn’t trust anybody. There was a kid in my high school. He was a nice kid. It’s not his fault. I’m not going to mention his name. I remember getting into a fight with him in the locker room after football practice one day. After I thought I got the best of him, he looked at me and said, “At least my dad is going to be there. Your dad is not going to be there for the next two decades.”

At the time, I wondered what everybody thought. No one said that to my face. It was the first time somebody had the courage to say to my face what I thought everybody was saying behind my back. I didn’t know it then. It took me about twenty years to figure it out. I ingested those words as my identity as, “I am a child of a prisoner.” I know that now to not be true. I don’t think I had ever said that. Everything in my body was driven towards making sure no one ever knew that about me.

I was going to create a trophy room so big and grand that if we ever spent time together, we would never get to my most endearing part, which is my side that’s hurt, broken, sad and those things that are inside of me. Look at me. I’m the guy who started, built and sold an airline. Few people can say that. Looking back, I don’t even like planes. Everybody I hired loves planes and what I realized was I was building this thing because it was a killer business in the sense that it brought a ton of accolades.

I sell the business. I’m supposed to be on top of the world. My marriage is in shambles and I’m drinking too much. My kids don’t know me. Quite frankly, I was not the best person. I had to take account of how I treated people. Honestly at that time, in my mind’s eye, there was this giant chessboard, which I placed people according to how I wanted them. I manipulated them in such a way that I needed them to be on my chessboard. I had to recognize that number one, no one is mine to manipulate. We’re all individuals. We have our own agency.

I can’t manipulate anybody. I don’t have the right to do that. Number two, there isn’t some giant cosmic chessboard of which I’m king. I had to realize that the greatest thing God did is make us in his image. The worst thing he did was make us in his image because we all think we’re mini gods. I had to come to this place where I was proud to say, “I picked myself up by my bootstraps, rubbed my dirt on it and made something of it. I’m the American dream.” It’s all the stuff and clichés that you say or hear and then you start to ingest. I had to do some hard work.

I spent a lot of time with people who love me and told me, “You’re a jerk sometimes. You’re not kind. You manipulate and do these things.” Talk about a hangover. You go from up here to down here. You would have to take an account of what are you going to do. The journey I’ve been on the last several years is recognizing that. This book I wrote, The Good Entrepreneur is all about this. The first ten chapters are building the businesses. The last two chapters are what I’m talking about now, which is what happens when you sell away your identity.

There’s no worse deal in the world than to build your identity into your business and then sell it. You wake up the next morning with a bunch of cash and nobody asking for your opinion anymore. That’s a hit to the ego. You’re talking about a why, “What do I do now?” As I started to tell this story that I’m telling you and to my close friends became safe to me and I would tell it to more people. The reaction was almost universally the same. They look over their shoulders a little bit and say, “If you only knew that the headlines do not match what’s going on inside of me. There’s the brokenness, the things I’ve had to do to get to where I am, the relationships and all the things that we all hide.”

There’s no worst deal in the world than building your identity into your business then selling it. You may get a bunch of cash but nobody will ask for your opinion anymore. Click To Tweet

I started to recognize that my vulnerability allowed people to be vulnerable. That seems like it was a deep epiphany for us. For me, Brené Brown is famous for making us know that, “If you want to be vulnerable with somebody and you want someone to be vulnerable with you, you have to be vulnerable with them.” I’ve been on this mission. I’ve recognized how isolated I was as a leader. People said, “You should go get a coach and do this.” I looked at coaches and I was like, “None of them had ever built a business. What are you going to tell me?”

It was so egotistical and prideful. My sin of choice was pride. I realized I was isolated as most leaders are. I come alongside leaders in my vocation now and spend time and sacred moments with them. We laugh, cry, strategize, focus, create clarity and remove static. We get to, “What are you going to go do with your life?” We’ve only got so many days. There are 30,000 days if you’re lucky. At our funeral and obituary, we’re going to name ten of them. What are you doing spending your time now? Who are you affecting regarding that?

What brought you to that? Take us into that moment when you realized something wasn’t right. You sold your business and got all this cash. You’re on top of the world. What was that moment where you said, “I’m not right. This is not right?”

If there’s one thing we know for sure, we have 2,000 years of empirical evidence that says we can be our own worst deceivers as humans. I’ve seen a lot of success in my own life and in building businesses. Aside from the first 30 days, not much of it was fun for me. I’m careful to ask the question not, “What can you do with your life?” but, “What should you be doing with your life?” Should is a very dangerous word. People use it to manipulate people all day long. I can start building and selling an airline.

That’s pretty impressive in a lot of people’s books. That doesn’t mean I should necessarily do that. None of this was easy. It was a white-knuckled grip that my kingdom needed for me to maintain my position. My wife and I have been married for years. My wife and some friends said, “You need to go get some counseling.” We went to marriage counseling. Our therapist said something incredibly wise. She said, “Everybody gets married 2 to 3 times in their lifetime. If you’re lucky, it’s the same person.”

What she was saying is, “You got married when you were babies. What are the chances that each of you is the same and that the negotiations you made early on are the same that you want now?” She gave us permission to renegotiate the terms of our marriage. We did so painfully but successfully. After that marriage counseling, I was part of a group at our church called Celebrate Recovery, which is a twelve-step based recovery program. It’s not specifically for narcotics or alcohol. It’s not AA or NA but it can be. It’s for sin in general.

I was addicted to pride. Pride was my everything. I spent time with this group of men. We confessed things to each other, shared things and got deep. There was a man who was my leader. His name was Richard Hoffman. Richard has since passed away. He’s one of these guys. He was like me. He used to always say, “You remind me of myself, never in doubt and sometimes wrong.” He was a couple of decades older than me. He punched me in the mouth a few times, not literally but figuratively.

He was one of the first people that I respected enough that I could take his punches and learn from them. He shared with me years earlier his story. I won’t go into it. He wrecked his life and spent twenty years trying to fix that. What he said was, “When I wrecked my life many years ago, I looked around and there was no one that I could talk to because everybody in my business, church and neighborhood, everywhere had their lives all put together.” As he saw it, he effectively in the same journey would start to tell his story. Men and women would say, “If you only knew.”

He spent twenty years of his life being this incredibly successful businessman. He was incredibly wealthy. He and his wife built a very successful business. He spent his time walking with people in their lives and creating these sacred moments. I, by the grace of God, spent the last eighteen months of his life on this Earth in his presence where he simultaneously punched me, hugged me, wrestled with me and lifted me up. About a week before his death, I went down to his lakehouse.

I said, “Richard, for all you’ve done over the course of eighteen months, how can I ever thank you? I finally found that thing I was looking for. My life when I was sixteen was irreparably changed or altered.” He said, “Go forth and do this with other people. Be with other people.” I was like, “I don’t know how to do that.” Shortly thereafter, I got involved with a guy named John Townsend. He wrote the book, Boundaries. He has since become a good friend.

I went through his Townsend Leadership Program with a group of ten leaders. Celebrate Recovery was removing my foundation and tearing down all my preconceived notions. TLP or Townsend Leadership Program was framing, building out my house and putting the roof on. I met a guy named Pete Richardson who’s in Boulder, Colorado. My wife and I sat down and said, “Help us create a twenty-year strategic plan for our lives.” We did and documented it. It was a 3-day 72-hour process.

BYW S4 18 | Status Quo
Status Quo: It is not enough to be successful. You have to know how to use your influence to make a difference in the world after achieving that.

 

It was beautiful. That was the decorations of the house. It was a complete teardown. It’s not like rehab or removing everything and starting fresh. That was the process I went through to go from not much hope at all even though externally everything was going my way to, “I don’t feel like I do these deep and intense moments with my clients.” I come home exhausted. I’m completely engulfed in energy with regards to, “I don’t feel like I work a day in my life.”

Here’s a question for you. I’m sure a lot of the readers are thinking this as well. Would you have been able to do what you did without being who you were? Would you have reached the heights and achievements addiction without pride? If you had the same perspective you have now, would you have created the so-called external success that you did?

The reason that is I hear often from people that have achieved a certain level of success in their lives that what they achieved wasn’t what they thought it was going to be, and they had to change. They changed themselves, tore themselves down and became something that they wanted to be after all. That was after the fact of reaching the levels they got to. Will you ever be an Olympic athlete without complete addiction to that sport?

This is the quest I’m on because there’s a lot of evidence that says, “You can.” I’m doing this in my own way. The work and vocation I do, I feel incredibly successful with. I’m proud of the work I’m doing. I don’t know if it’s ever going to be like, “The New York Times is never going to write another article on me because of the work I’m doing.” There’s a lot of evidence that shows that you can. Conscious Capitalism is an organization I’m a huge fan of and part of. This idea is never less than profits but so much more. Make your money. That’s oxygen-free business.

You’ve got to make a ton of money and go for it. Recognize that there are five different stakeholders in a business. There are employees, customers, investors, communities and vendors. If any one of those gets out of whack in a business then the whole wheel goes off the track. When you can make that work well, you get things like Costco southwest Airlines and The Container Store. They have done studies and said, “It’s 10X certain companies and their 10X growth at S&P 500 over the course of several years.” You can do that.

However, the people we pull up and say the great entrepreneurs like the Elon Musks, Steve Jobs, Larry Ellisons, Travis Kalanicks and Adam Neumanns are unhealthy on a different spectrum with regards to relationships. I appreciate the work. I enjoy WeWork. I love Tesla and my iPhone. I appreciate the work they do. We put these uber-entrepreneurs up into this space and say, “This is who you should be.” We do an injustice because what we say is they are the ones who are doing it.

The reality is Steve Jobs had 20,000 workers. Twenty thousand people were behind him. He was onstage. He had the ideas. We hear all these different stories and they’re all true. Henry Ford had 50,000 people working for him. Larry Ellison has 100,000. The reality is that no one is an island by themselves. To answer your question, it’s real. It’s easier to be a jerk than it is to be good. We often take the shortcut to get to what we want to. That saves time initially and ends up corrupting our legacy long after we’re gone.

I don’t know if you can answer the question. That may not be an answerable question. We have examples of people who have hit the highest level that did it the way they did it and that they thought they had to get there. I wonder if you have any examples in your mind of people that did it the way you would do it now. Is there somebody you can think of that they created the most amazing whatever?

Herb Kelleher, one of the Founders of Southwest Airlines, did that. Herb was this rogue, “I’m crazy. I’m going to start an airline in Texas.” He was a hero of mine in a lot of ways. I met him several times.

He has the same why.

Herb was this way. You go talk to the employees of Southwest Airlines. They are loyal beyond reason. You go to their Halloween party and it’s out of control. They created a culture around an airline or a commodity. An airline is a commodity at the end of the day. They created a culture that makes a difference. Herb Kelleher absolutely did that. You could pull a lot of people. You look at people like William Wilberforce who was in legislation in the UK. He ended slavery and used his power for good.

People often take shortcuts to get what they want. Though it may save time initially, it can corrupt your legacy. Click To Tweet

You can look across the board and see people who did good and successful things, reached the peak of success in their own right and didn’t use other humans. To answer your question like, “Could I go do it again?” I don’t know. Honestly, that’s one of my fears. The question is, “Could you go do that again?” Every entrepreneur who will tell you the truth will say their fear is, “Am I a 1-hit wonder or a 2-hit wonder? Can I go do it again?” We know how much it took from us and how much luck played into our success. I would like to believe that. My vocation is to come around these leaders and say, “Let’s find a different way to do it and go on this journey together.”

I’m seeing your next book coming to life.

What do you see in the journey?

It’s exactly what we talked about. Go do a book on leaders that did it right. They’re ones that you would love to have patterned your life after and ones that you would be proud to go to dinner with and introduce to your kids.

Do I have to put you as a cowriter?

No. It’s all you. I’m just taking what you said and putting it back to you. I could see that as being something very valuable for people that want to do it right.

I like that idea. We need to amplify those voices. Unfortunately, I got to unpack that. I don’t know exactly why but we over-index the voices that don’t do it the “right” way. What I was trying to put forward in this book, The Good Entrepreneur is it’s not good as in successful. The understanding is you’re going to be successful at the hard stop. That’s the bare minimum. What are you doing with your influence after that’s going to make a difference in the world and other people’s lives?

Last question for you, what’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever been given or the best piece of advice you’ve ever given?

I’ll tell you the first one that comes to mind. I think about it regularly. It has allowed me to do what I’m doing. My third book is a book I want to write after that one called Micro-retirement. It’s something my wife and I practice. My wife’s an ER physician. She does two weeks of work. They don’t have time shifts. For the vocation I do, I spend two weeks out of the month. We take two weeks off to do non-revenue-generating work. My wife, who has been a doctor for a long time is learning to play guitar and write songs. She’s got twenty-some songs she’s written. She wants to go on that path.

The book that I published was my output from the time of non-revenue generation. The reason we’re able to do that is a guy named Calvin Howell, who was a mentor of mine who has since passed away and his wife came up with this idea that my wife and I have followed, which is to create a number. He told me this when I was in college, “Pick a number. Make it big and outlandish. When you get there, give everything else away.”

In college, the number I picked was astronomical. I never thought I would reach there. Now, it seems unbelievable by a lot of standards. If I had to pick it now, it would be a completely different number. It’s because we have that number, we’re able to stop and go, “More is not necessarily better.” We’re able to take a pause and create a healthier life for ourselves, our children and our community. For two type-A go-get-them personalities like my wife and I, it’s the appropriate governor we needed.

BYW S4 18 | Status Quo
The Good Entrepreneur: An Insider’s Guide to Building a Principled Business and a Powerful Personal Legacy

The best advice I’ve ever received is, “Pick a number. Make it big and outlandish. When you get there, give everything else out away.” That way, you don’t become a hostage to it. I know several billionaires. I’ll ask them what their number is and the answer is almost universally more. They don’t even know why it’s more. It’s just more. It’s the American way. The reality is we consume things we don’t need. We want more and we don’t even know why we want more. That’s the best advice I’ve ever received.

Nick, if there are people reading and there are people reading that would love to connect with you, follow you, be coached by you, spend some time with you and create sacred moments with you, how can they get ahold of you?

The easiest way is my website NickKennedyCoaching.com. I’m on Instagram, Twitter and TikTok. My daughter has got me on TikTok. I’m trying to reach a whole different generation that way. It’s @NickKennedy_IG for Instagram, @NickKennedy_TT for TikTok or @NickKennedy_TW for Twitter. You can follow me out there. I would love to chat with you. You get a lot of this stuff too in the book. I read the book myself on audio. If you like the sound of my voice, you can have me read the book to you personally.

Tell us again the title of your book.

It’s called The Good Entrepreneur: An Insider’s Guide to Building a Principled Business and a Powerful Personal Legacy.

Nick, thank you so much for being here. I enjoyed our conversation. It gave me a lot to think about. I appreciate that.

Gary, thanks for asking people to figure out their why. If we can do this, the world is going to be a better place.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for reading. If you’ve not yet discovered your why, you could do so at WHYInstitute.com. You can use the code PODCAST50 and discover it at half price. If you loved the Beyond Your WHY show, please don’t forget to subscribe and leave us a review and a rating on whatever platform you’re using. I will see you all.

Important Links:

About Nick Kennedy

BYW S4 18 | Status QuoNick Kennedy is a serial entrepreneur and an executive life coach with over 20 years of experience building successful ventures. After accumulating over two million airline miles traveling for work while losing hours of productivity and family time, Nick founded RISE in 2014. A private airline, RISE created a two- sided marketplace that connected busy business executives with private plane operators to redefine travel in order to regain control of wasted time.

Prior to RISE, Nick began his career as a business development manager for EDS. He then went on to build multiple health care–centered businesses. Now as a coach with over four thousand hours of experience for high-powered executives, he helps stuck executives become fully integrated spouses, parents, and businesspeople.

Nick was named a 2017 EY Entrepreneur of the Year, awarded Dallas Business Journal’s 40 Under 40 and serves as a Capital Factory mentor and on the boards of several companies. He has been featured in NY Times, The Wall Street Journal, D Magazine, Texas Monthly, Dallas News, and the Dallas Business Journal. Nick splits his time between Texas and Colorado, along with his wife Angela and kids, Will, Sam, and Jane.

Categories
Podcast

When You Focus On Your Purpose, Amazing Things Happen With Paul Epstein

BYW S4 17 | Focus On Your Purpose

Not knowing who you are will hinder your growth. But when you focus on your purpose, amazing things start to happen. Paul Epstein is the bestselling author of The Power of Playing Offense and the Chief Impact Officer of PurposePoint. A consultancy company focusing on leadership and culture development. Join in the conversation as Paul shares with Dr. Gary Sanchez how knowing his WHY of Contribute brings out the best in him. He believes that the most powerful things you can learn about yourself are who you are and who you’re being. When you identify your core values, something special happens, and you know your life will be different. Tune in!

Watch the episode here:

Listen to the podcast here:

When You Focus On Your Purpose, Amazing Things Happen With Paul Epstein

We go beyond talking about your why, helping you discover and live your why. If you are a regular reader, you know that in every episode, we talk about 1 of the 9 whys, and we bring on somebody with that why. You can see how their why has played out in their life. In this episode, we are going to be talking about the Why of Contribute.

If this is your why, then you want to be part of a greater cause, something that is bigger than yourself. You do not necessarily want to be the face of the cause but you love to contribute in a meaningful way. You love to support others and relish the success that contributes to the greater good of the team. You see group victories as personal victories.

You are off and behind the scenes looking for ways to make the world better. You make a reliable and committed teammate and you often act as the glue that holds everyone else together. You use your time, money, energy, resources, and connections to add value to other people and organizations. I have got a great guest for you. His name is Paul Epstein.

Paul believes there are two types of people in this world, those who play defense and those who play offense. These insights are around purpose, performance, and impact were gathered over a fifteen-year run as a professional sports executive, where Paul successfully steered business teams that executed billion-dollar NFL campaigns, broke Super Bowl revenue records, and generated league-leading sales results for seller dweller NBA clubs.

Paul’s proudest moment was when he was internally known as the Why Coach at the San Francisco 49ers, coaching others to find their why and act on it. Paul has curated the most actionable ways into leader’s playbooks of how he and his team produced this impact in these hypercompetitive environments. He calls it playing offense.

He is the Chief Impact Officer for PurposePoint and the Chief Purpose Advisor for the WHY Institute. Paul is a proud father of PJ, married his best friend on the field of Levi’s Stadium, and has a slight obsession with bacon, just do not make it too crispy. Ladies and gentlemen, Paul Epstein. Thanks for being here.

I’m fired up to be here. If you have any bacon, it is going to be an even better conversation.

Tell me about that. I can’t bypass that one. What is the story with the bacon?

I had some early childhood holidays down in Mexico. My mom is a proud Mexican descent, so we would normally cruise down there and spend some time with the grand folks. For my fourth Christmas, I’ve got a box. When they handed it to me, it was shaking and I see a little black wet nose coming out of it. In there are two puppies.

As a youngster, you think this is a normal Christmas. You get animals. You get pets. When the time came around before my fifth Christmas, they said, “What do you want?” I said, “I want a pig.” Of course, I’ve never got the pig. They looked at me like I was crazy and that is only half true but needless to say, I have been a massive fan. As much as I’m a 49ers fan, I am a bacon fan. Those two things have stood, tried, and true.

Paul, tell everybody where you are from. Take us through your journey. You have done some amazing things at a very young age. Where did you grow up? What were you like in high school? Let’s start back there.

I mentioned the roots in Mexico. That was very easy to take a four-hour drive because I’m from Los Angeles. My sports career had me visit a ton of different markets and spend years of my life outside of SoCal. The humidity, the cold, and the polar vortex, go West. We are going to come back to that because I have some fun stories about being in Angeleno in cold weather.

I will call myself the little softy there but I was born and raised in LA with my two amazing parents. I was an only child. My dad was an educator. My mom stayed at home to watch me like a hawk. She was one of those parents that were the president of the PTA, the Parent-Teacher Association. That was her way of making sure that I was doing the right thing and getting good grades.

Thank goodness because, A) Having a dad that is an educator, and B) Having a mom that I may not like at the moment but I now am a proud parent of a one-year-old, so we are very new in the journey but I get, see, feel and understand it. It took me three decades to get here. I kept my head on straight. I was an athlete throughout. Football, basketball, and baseball had my stints and I have always loved sports. I’m one of those classics go to the backyard, throw the ball with your pops kind of a guy.

BYW S4 17 | Focus On Your Purpose
The Power of Playing Offense: A Leader’s Playbook for Personal and Team Transformation – https://www.amazon.com/Power-Playing-Offense-Playbook-Transformation/dp/1645436241

If you want to talk about childhood, my childhood was amazing. Teenagers were amazing, but then something very tragic happened. This is very important in my story because it all connects to why I do what I do and who I am even now. I went to USC. I was not ready to fly too far away from the nest. I’ve got into some amazing schools but with the parents I have, I had to apply to fifteen schools.

Imagine how many essays that are. It was at Northwestern that I had to write four. Let’s say an average is 2, so 30 essays later, I’m at USC. It was the finals of my freshman year. I’m nineteen years old and I get a call that changed my life forever. It was a call that after decades of my dad struggling through diabetes, he finally had his final day.

It was a moment where instantly you feel you went from a boy to a man. You, as an only child, look at your one-standing parent being my mom. She goes from a parent to a partner. I drive home. It is a 10 to 15-minute drive. In some ways, I still remember like it was yesterday seeing my mom. We will get to my purpose, my why, my values, and how they have changed my life throughout this conversation.

One of the ways that I have been able to pull, reflect and apply a lot of those things in my life is because it all has an origin story, and one of my core values is courage. I’ve got that value of courage because of how I saw my mom that day and the next. She breathed courage into me. The Latin definition of inspire is to breathe life into. She breathed and inspired courage, and it is never left.

I will share a story if you would like at a later point in the conversation about my dad and the way he has been able to impact my life even more after the day he passed than when he was alive. That is the early years through the college years. A couple of years later was when I broke into sports. I’m happy to go there if you would like but I will kick it back to you.

She breathed it into you. What do you mean by that? There are going to be people reading this who are having their own trauma and stuff going on. What was that like?

Oftentimes, when fear or risk is highest, you could think of it on a small level. It is a setback, hurdle or obstacle. There is another level like a global pandemic and maybe a loss that happened, whether a person, place, job, or industry. It is the loss of being able to build a community and hang out with the people you want to hang out with whenever you want, those types of things.

At the highest level, maybe there is something that is terminal on a medical front. There is something where you lose 1 of the 2 most important people in your life at an age that you are not ready to lose them. I was nineteen. I had this thought in my head that this was supposed to be the end of the world. My dad died and I’m not even twenty years. I not only saw her strength. More importantly, I felt her strength.

When I wanted to crumble, she did not let me. She is the rock star in my life, the rock in my life if you will, so when you ask the question of, “How did she breathe life into me?” it is the same way that I measure people, action. She could have told me, “Stay strong, be strong.” If I saw weakness, if she did not show up strong or say the right things but did not do the right things, I do not know how I would have processed that experience. That is what I mean. Life is about how you show up. If it is not in action, it does not count.

You were at USC. What did you major in and how did you get into the whole sports world?

I was a business guy. Interestingly, in some of the other conversations that we have had, you always talk about the way you were raised. My family always told me growing up, “This kid can talk.” I would not shut up. They said, “You are going to be a lawyer or in sales. There are only two options.” That is not exactly why I’ve got into business school but I knew that I had a passion for not only speaking but more importantly, connecting with people.

I am not the cubicle guy. I am the guy that needs to feel there is a partnership. In my playing offense terminology, I say, “Meet me at the 50.” That is when two people have the same amount of energy and level of resources that they are bringing to the table. You are meeting at the 50 as partners. The way I like to think about it is, “I’m not just going to run through the wall for you. I do not want you to run through the wall for me. Let’s lock arms and run through the wall together.”

That is my philosophy on life, business, and partnership. That is why I’ve got into sales because I saw an opportunity to do that, so I go to school. Business, sales, and marketing were the background. I did not get into sports until a year after. I worked for Philip Morris. Now they are called Altria. For those that do not know, that is the pairing company of Marlboro cigarettes amongst other brands.

I had friends that worked at the company and they recruited me. I was like, “This is pretty badass. I’m 19 to 20 years old working for a Fortune 10 company. I do not even care what the product or service is. Do you know how amazing that is on a resume? That is how we think at a certain point. I’m a summer sales intern. I end up being a recruiting ambassador, meeting those tents in the middle of campus at a career fair.

To inspire is to breathe life into others. Click To Tweet

I’m the guy representing Philip Morris under one of those tents. I’m trying to tell people to join me in this army of Philip Morris folks. It went fine at USC and it was very pleasant in LA, then they sent me to the Bay Area at a school called Berkeley. For those that know the brand of Berkeley, there are some different cats up there. By the way, my wife went there as an undergrad. I’ve got to say, “Go, Bears!” just to stay married. Let me put that out there.

I’m at a Berkeley career fair. As I’m approaching with all of my materials, I see a flock of people that is a couple of hundred feet in front of me. I’m thinking, “What is going on? Is it a protest or what is this?” I creep up and they are right in front of the Philip Morris booth. Within five minutes to the start of the career fair, I had security on both sides of me. People are holding up signs in front of me. There were two signs that I will never forget. One said, “You work for the devil.” Another one said, “You sell cancer.”

You want to talk about putting things in perspective. All of a sudden, that Fortune 10, the brand, and the resume did not matter. You’ve got to think about tribes and values that you stand for, that are attracted to, and what repels you. That moment taught me that there are many superficial reasons to do things in life. Work for the big brand or go for the supermodel but you can’t even have a conversation with them.

There are all these things or places that we engage with for reflecting back on the wrong reasons but you’ve got to go through some life experience for it. That was my Berkeley experience. This is the break into the sport, and then I will kick it back to you. For those sports fans, there is a guy named Mel Kiper. He is a college football draft guru. He is a high-energy guy like the fire, the burn, and all that good stuff.

I’m driving in my Philip Morris van and I’m graduated. It is not too far from that Berkeley Career Fair. I’m on ESPN Radio. All of a sudden, Mel comes on, “Have you ever wanted to work in sports? Have you ever dreamt of working for your favorite MLB and NBA team?” I’m speeding down the road like, “Yes.” His call to action was, “Call 1877-SMWW.” SMWW stands for Sports Management Worldwide. Eight weeks later, I graduated from an online program. The deal was if you are a good student and can turn some heads with the professors, they will plug you into their network. That was my break-in.

They said, “Where do you want to be?” I said, “LA.” They said, “We have an opportunity at the Clippers.” The Clippers, at that time, were Lakers with Kobe and Shaq. Clippers were the redheaded stepchild here from a brand perspective. When I first started with them, ESPN called us the worst brand in sports. Sports Illustrated doubled down a year later and said, “You are the worst franchise in sports history,” so I had to sell that. That is my break into sports.

What was it like working for the Clippers in those days? I remember living out in LA. It was hard to get anybody to go to a Clipper game and it is almost embarrassing to show up at a Clipper game. You do not want to go to that.

Imagine you are entertaining clients. You are trying to paint this facade that it is a sold-out arena, push urgency that they are the last seats in the house, and there are 10,000 open seats around them. You say, “Maybe they are a little late to the game.” That’s what it was like. Here is the reality and this is good advice for life and something that I learned at a very young career stage.

You’ve got to control the controllable. I know it sounds a cliché. We have all heard it but, do you actually do that? There is a very short list of things that both, you either fully control or do not control. The majority of things fall in the middle. I call it the land of influence. Most things in life are gray. You influence them. The things you do not control are things like the weather or the economy if adversity enters your life.

I already shared a few of my stories and will flip the script. What do you control? It is all within you. It is things like your mindset, actions, attitude, and energy level, my actions, my attitudes, my reactions, my energy level, and not the selfish my but the self-awareness my or the perspective my. Working at the Clippers, if you listen to all of the outside noise that is so uncontrollable, whether the media, an annoyed fan or whatever it is, you are going to lose.

I was in a twelve-person recruiting class. I was the only person to make it to the second month on the job because they only wanted the glitz and glamor of getting into sports. I was doing it because I was on a mission to sell as much of the unsellable as possible. I would argue that early in my career, I do not want to work for the market leader. I want to work for the underdog.

What was that like trying to sell the Clippers and how did you eventually sell the Clippers?

I know we will get to the why process in a bit but it is not too different where there is a why and sometimes there is a why under the why. We would always call it single-game buyers. I would call folks that came to a Clipper versus Lakers game because they are locals. You remove a lot of the barriers and objections are out. Lakers’ seats are so tough to get and they are expensive. I’m already winning some of those battles before I even pick up the phone.

I start to understand why they come to games. I know they are Laker games but why and who do you come with? What is that memory and event that you are never going to forget and how have sports been a part of your life? You like coming with your son, daughter or better half. What is the coolest event that you have ever been to? What transpired because of that moment? It’s because of that, it forged a greater relationship.

BYW S4 17 | Focus On Your Purpose
Focus On Your Purpose: Think about values that attract you and you stand for.

 

I get very deep under the surface and into why they love the game itself, who their favorite players are, and all of these different logistics and details. I say, “What if you could be a handful of rows off the court, which does not exist with the Lakers, and you could have these amazing experiences with your family?” You hear them incremental yes. Let’s get this done. It is almost like they said yes to so many things that were important to them, they forgot that it was Clippers. I sold the NBA, family, and what I could control because I can’t control if the Clippers win games or not.

How did you learn to do that?

I will be humble when I say this. Some of this is a gift. I do know that but that is not all it is. I refuse to answer in a way that, “Some of us are gifted at whatever.” I’m humbled to say I know a lot of great performers, whether professional athletes or folks that are in the entertainment world. They did not get there overnight, and just because of their gifts.

I know for a fact spending fifteen years in sports, countless people have gifts, very few apply them. That is my fundamental belief because I was not the most talented. I believe I was talented. I am too humble to ever say I was the most talented but I had this hard hat mentality. When I say control the controllables and even when I became the sales manager a few years later, I managed the room that I once started in as an entry-level sales guy.

I always told folks when I was recruiting that my job as a hiring manager is to hire the best talent. Do not worry about whether you think you are amazing at sales. That is my judgment to make in this interview process. What I need you to do in our contract is I need three things. I need your work ethic, positivity, and coachability. That’s the lunch pill. Those are the non-negotiables. You give me those three things. I will take care of you for the rest of your career.

That is how I inspired and motivated teams to forget about the noise and the negativity of the market and start focusing on what they truly wanted and that deeper burn, that igniting of passion. I found that when you can understand what is important to other people, it is that Zig Ziglar thing. You help enough people get what they want and life tends to reward you, too.

I do not do that strategically. I do not take score or give with the expectation of getting. I just give. I’m a contributor. I always have been. I didn’t always know that because I did not take this wonderful assessment but reflecting back, that is how I inspired others and that is the same pep talk that I had to have with myself when I was on the front lines in a producing role.

You were in the Clippers for how long and what was the next step?

I was selling for about a year and change, and then I ended up managing the team. That was about a two-year run. In my two years as a Manager, the first year, we finished 28th in revenue. In the second year, we finished second in revenue. How did we do that? The Clippers won no more games in that second year than the first. When you said seller-dwelling MBA clubs when you were introducing me, this is what we are referring to.

How do you take bottom and league revenue to second next to the top? It was a partnership agreement that I figured out. Let me back up. I’m going to give tremendous credit to one of my guys. His name is Eddie. Eddie was the only person in the room that by age was older than me. Technically, he reported to me but I never viewed it that way. I believed that I learned more from Eddie than he could have ever learned from me.

He had already run his own real estate businesses. His family has given him the blessing to come in at a $7 an hour entry-level job with no other benefits and no bonus potential. He got that blessing and ended up being one of the biggest blessings in my life. Six months into that two-year run at the Clippers, Eddie and I go out for a bite. I say, “Eddie, I look around the room and I feel we have got this amazing locker room. There is such good talent. I’m so fired up but the scoreboard does not reflect that. Our sales revenue sucks. What is going on?”

He said, “Paul, what are we doing?” I said, “I do not know. We are hanging out and having lunch.” He goes, “Is it fair to say we are breaking bread?” I said, “Sure.” He hit me. He said, “When was the last time you did this with anybody else on the team?“ It was a very simple, yet profound message that I needed to hear because I basically was managing people the way I was managed, not leading because there is a difference.

I’m not going to claim that early in my sales career, I had amazing coaching or mentorship. I’m not knocking the guys. In the sports industry, there was a little bit of a transactional feel inside the front office. That is how it was. I’m not going to BS about it. You asked how I became a lot of it. I could probably owe 2 people like my parents and 2 others. Sometimes you need to extract life lessons and apply them to your business if you do not have all the right resources in your business roof. That is a reality of life.

Eddie woke me up. Relationships are the secret sauce of life and the currency of business. Trust is one of those things that you need to form within a team. Those sounds are so simple and fundamental but I was blind as an entry-level manager. Thanks to Eddie, I woke up. That is how you go from number 28 to number 2 in revenue. I know the people, the culture, and the leadership game. When I started to realize that that should be put ahead of goals, metrics, key performance indicators, and all this quantitative stuff, that is when the game changed.

Forget about the noise and negativity and focus on igniting your passion. Click To Tweet

Was it about the team or the culture? What made the biggest difference to take you from 28th to 2nd?

We had something called the constitution. It was a whiteboard in the room and this program of sales was called inside sales. It was designed to be 6 to 9 months. Let’s say you were hired on January 1st. That means that between July 1st and September, that is your window of getting promoted if you are a top producer. That is the environment.

Remember those three non-negotiables, work ethic, positivity, and coachability. I connected with everybody and I said, “You give me those three things. I do not care how poor your sales performance is because that’s on me. That means I did not see a lack of a gift, talent, skill or ability in the recruiting process. I will own that. You will not be fired for lack of revenue but you will lose your seats if you do not have the work ethic, positivity, and coachability, and not most of the time, all of the time. This is not a 90% Rule. It is a 100% Rule.”

I created a constitution, made it sound very formal and said, “I will hereby,” and I put the three elements of the constitution, work ethic, positivity, and coachability. I would write the dates of their 6 to 9-month window next to their name. I would sign it and have them sign it. Let’s say, Susie, I would say, “Susie, you do these three things. In this three-month window, I will not only take care of you then. I will take care of you for the rest of your life.” That is what got people.

I treated them not as an employee or even as a team member but as a family member. That family workaround in business is way too much. Ninety percent of the time, you do coaching and consulting, Gary. Do you go in and you are like, “This does not feel like a family but you all say you are a family.” It is situations like that. Some would say, “Paul, you are overcommitting yourself. Why would you ever put yourself on the line?” I’m like, “How could I not?” It is because I essentially had to become the leader that I never had.

Amazingly, you were able to do that at a young age. You were in your early twenties, right?

Yes, probably at that time mid-ish twenties.

Where did you go next? Keep us going on the journey.

I had to fly away from the nest. The way it works in sports is you either wait for your boss to leave or you’ve got to go external. For me, at this time, you are feeling yourself because you are riding some mojo and you get second in the league in the NBA. I had a lot of opportunities but the one that I ended up landing and that felt right was going out to New Orleans, from Hollywood Boulevard to Bourbon Street, if you will.

That was crazy. Mardi Gras is a real thing. What was even scarier is that it is almost 365 but it was a heck of a time. Here is what I learned in New Orleans. I’m not knocking the folks I was working with. I’m simply saying that a void in my life to that point was, I was still looking for that business leader that I would do anything for. I was still looking for the mentor that I would dedicate my life. I wanted it but I was not going to force it. You can’t force anybody’s leadership style.

I went to New Orleans because I fell in love with my fellow leaders. When I look to my left and right, I’m like, “This is thunder buddies for life. This is awesome.” What made it even more interesting was that eventually, there is a little bit of sadness and tragedy in this story too but it leads to purpose. The NBA team in New Orleans is called the Pelicans but they are called the Hornets at that time. Their Owner, Mr. Shinn, became very ill with cancer. He had to give up the operations of the team, so the late Commissioner of the NBA, David Stern, comes in.

He has a group of people, which still exists in the NBA. They are called TMBO, which is Team Marketing & Business Operations. Think of them as the superwomen and supermen of the teams that get promoted to the league. They fly in with capes and fix things, whether it is your sales, marketing, game day or operation.

Whatever gaps you have, they accumulate best practices throughout the league and give you the playbook. In a case like this, because they took stewardship of the franchise, it was not giving us a playbook. They were locking arms and executing with us. If you want to talk about that void I had of working for amazing people with amazing gifts and talents, I stumbled into it by being in New Orleans at the right place at the right time.

Commissioner Stern was a little bit of a bulldog. He studied the books of the franchise and we were the worst. We were the least viable, in economic terms, franchise in the NBA. On the books, there is no team that you would rather own less for finance reasons than the Hornets. He gave us an ultimatum. “Sell 10,000 season tickets, which is the gold standard in the NBA or you are going to lose the franchise.”

BYW S4 17 | Focus On Your Purpose
Focus On Your Purpose: The three non-negotiables are work ethic, positivity, coachability.

We had a buckle down. Thankfully, we had a lot of support but it was a scary proposition because if I could be real with you and everybody reading, the South is a football part of the country. Basketball was an afterthought. I can take it at the Clippers. I love you. I hate you. I can have those conversations. What I can’t do anything about is apathy.

What do you do when somebody does not care? I can’t make you care. If you do not care about basketball, how do I inspire you to join this movement that is going to save the franchise? What if you do not care about that franchise? We went back to the drawing board. We said, “If they do not care about basketball, what do they care about?”

For those that are either in New Orleans, from New Orleans or have been in New Orleans, Nolans as they say, you know that people are passionate. They have pride, whether it is the jazz, the food, the drinks, or the parades, they love themselves some knowledge. That is what they love. There is a tremendous amount of identity, whereas where I’m from, LA, there are not a lot of identities. There are a lot of transplants, a melting pot or whatever but not the best identity. Identity lives in New Orleans.

We captured that magic and said, “Let’s build a case around what it would mean if we lost the franchise and how it would be the scarlet letter on the identity of your city.” We started this campaign called “I’m In.” We pulled in all these influencers from the World’s Top Chefs and politicians, people that call New Orleans home. We said, “Host events in your home because that is authentic. Pull people into your living rooms. Invite them in and rally them to be in. If they are in, here are the benefits to the city that you care so much about.“

We made it bigger than basketball. That was my first lesson about organizational purpose. Even if you do not love the product or service, if you love the purpose, why you do what you do, and you feel you are a part of something bigger than yourself, whether as an employee or as a customer, the power of purpose is real. Thankfully, there is a happy ending to the story. We’ve got to the number without purpose. I 100% know we do not even come close.

You were there for a couple of years. Where did you go next?

I was in Sacramento Kings, and that was my quick one-year-ish stop. There was an NBA lockout. I was in charge of company culture during an NBA lockout. I do not think anything in life is impossible but that is pretty close to it because your livelihood is taken away. I can laugh about it but that was a tough chapter. My next up is New York and we will go there in a second. Remember that relationship lesson from Eddie.

In New Orleans, I befriended in a very human and authentic way, not because I wanted them to take care of me. I fell in love with that NBA crew that I referenced earlier. Some lifelong friendships organically came out of it. How did I end up in Sacramento? One of those NBA folks was helping the Kings and said, “Paul, can you come help?”

How did I end up in New York? The same guy said, “I’m with an agency, Legends, owned by Yankees and Cowboys. We are based in New York. We’ve got some clubs out. There is a little soccer, football, baseball. We would love to plugin. Do you want to join us?” “I do.” I was not following the place. I was following the people because I finally found my people. I found folks that I could align with on a deeper level, bigger than a career. I genuinely felt we synced.

That is what led me to New York. It was not that I ran away from the Sacramento adversity. We were throwing paper airplanes in an office, which for somebody that wants to contribute and make an impact, throwing paper airplanes, while it sounds fun, gets old after about a day. You want to go back and make a difference in the world. That is what took me to New York and how I’ve got into the sports consulting space. That is what led me to the NFL League Office where I ran a national sales campaign.

We ended up breaking an all-time revenue record for that game, which was a tremendous accomplishment. My heart was always in football. I loved all these pit stops in the NBA but I always wished that I could get into that granddaddy of them, the NFL. My agency had some connects at the NFL League Office. I’ve got to have strategy sessions with NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell. It was a tremendous experience and one I wouldn’t trade for the world.

You went into the NFL League. Did you end up with the 49ers?

Yes. You will notice the trend here. I say this from a very humble place but out of fifteen years, I will give you two stats and they are almost oxymorons of each other. For anybody reading, if you are a sports fan, let’s say you root for the “fill in the blank” team for fifteen years, what are the odds that they are going to make the playoffs?

You would say 1/3 of the time, 1/2 of the time or 2/3 of the time. You are not going to be it every year but you are also going to make it sometimes. I worked fifteen years in sports. The teams I worked for made it to the playoffs once, 1 out of 15 years. Here is the second step. Out of the fifteen years, we hit goal 14 out of 15 times. This is not necessarily your job on the line but more about, this is how you get rewarded, recognized and how your career grows.

If you love why you do what you do, you’ll feel you're a part of something bigger than yourself. Click To Tweet

Imagine you are consistently achieving success. We break a revenue record in the NFL. The Super Bowl was a project. It was full-time at the moment but it was a nine-month sprint. My agency was brought in. I was the point guard and the leader of that national sales campaign. There were 50 people spread throughout the country but I was the only person with boots on the ground in headquarters in 345 Park Ave.

We did the impossible and it turned a lot of heads. One of those heads was then the COO, now President of the San Francisco 49ers, Al Guido, who is a dear friend and an amazing leader. Al comes calling and says, “How would you like to come back to Cali? We are opening up Levi stadium.” Essentially, they created a role for me. They were doing well. They were on pace but they wanted to level it up. I had some relationships in common with Al. He believed in me through the people that he referenced. All of a sudden, I’ve got out of the polar vortex world and I made it back to California.

What was your position with the 49ers and what was that working for them?

It was the best job I have ever had, the best place I have ever worked, and the best leaders I have ever worked with and for. Had I not found my why? I would hope that I would still be at the 49ers. It was like a family to me. The magic question is, “Why would you ever leave a place that you describe like that?” My role was Head of Sales and Biz Dev.

Think of 70,000 people in the stadium. The sales team is responsible for putting the butts in the seats. Who calls Levi’s to eventually become Levi’s Stadium and all those corporate sponsors? Who sells all those luxury boxes and the premium hospitality? You need a sales team. There is a lot of outbound effort that needs to happen to monetize what this sport is.

Do not get me wrong. There is a lot of incoming interest as well. To close the gap, fill the place, and maximize revenue, that is where the sales team comes in. It is not because sports can’t sell themselves but if you price it aggressively, you are going to need some muscle for that. We were the muscle. My role there was to recreate what was an old revenue model of, “You have ten games and maybe we have some concerts and a soccer match here and there.”

At 365, we light up the building 20 times and the other 345 are dark, AKA you do not make money versus our president and our owner wanted to monetize it year-round. To do that, from things having restaurants on-site, to stay stadium tours year-round, to private banquet events, Facebook did a holiday party for 20,000 people in the stadium. There were weddings. One might have been mine, full disclosure. We had weddings at Levi’s Stadium. You are not going to believe this, Gary. It was her idea, not mine.

You married, right?

I did. I converted to a Raider fan. That is even better.

It is not easy.

That was my role there. It was awesome. There was a retreat in year 3 of 4 of my journey with the 49ers that eventually led to my Jerry Maguire leap from them.

It seems like being in a great spot is going to take something big for you to want to leave. What happened?

What happened is, in August 2016, there was a two-day offsite retreat that changed my life. I found my why. It was led by Simon Sinek. I know you know him and you have been very kind about your relationship with him and his team. They led the experience. This was after he had done a keynote. The message of why was permeating throughout the organization, even ahead of that.

A small group of us got offsite and tapped into our why. We all walk away with a why statement and identifying our core values. I knew that something special had happened. I did not know what was going to come and what was going to follow but I knew that life was different. Fast forward, I get back in the office. I’m radiating this extra level of energy.

BYW S4 17 | Focus On Your Purpose
Focus On Your Purpose: When you identify your core values, something special happens, and you know your life will be different.

Folks are like, “What was in the punch? What did you drink at that retreat? Paul, you have already got too much juice. You are at another level. You are at a ten. We need you at a two.” That is how I shot out of a cannon back into the front office. I shared what happened at the retreat, and that was the end of that conversation.

The next day, one person that I shared it with came up to me on the side and said, “Paul, that thing you did at the retreat, do you think you could coach me through the same process?“ The next day, another person. 1, 2, 5, 10 to nearly 50 led, and all water-cooler buzz that started on the business side eventually made its way to the football side of the organization. That is how I became known as the Why Coach of the San Francisco 49ers. It was a passion project that I was paying the gift of purpose forward. I found why. It felt like a special thing and I could not contain it to keep it inside of me.

That is very much my story as well. Did you get to work with many of the players?

Toward the tail end of that 50, yes. It started almost exclusively on the business side because those are the folks who I knew best and was around with every day. It happened in the offseason but we’ve got into the season and they were around. We share a cafeteria. If you ask what the number one thing I miss about sports is, I miss the freaking 49ers player cafeteria. It is a tremendous place.

When you share a cafeteria, you are going to be sitting at the table with the who’s who of the NFL and the 49ers. You drum up some relationships. I do not say it lightly but there was a water-cooler buzz. There was, “This guy has got a little bit of the potion. This guy can get you to your why. I was probably having 2 to 3 hours of sit-downs and that is about the time it was taking me to get them from start to finish. At 6:00 AM, we were showing up, in the evenings, and on weekends. This is a side hustle.

This was not a part of the day job but what is interesting is that HR caught wind of it. I get a cryptic email that you never want from HR. They say into the head of the HR’s office. I’m like, “Is this my last day? What is going on?” It is quite the opposite. They said, “Paul, we heard through the grapevine what you are doing. We think it is phenomenal and tremendous. What are your thoughts on integrating it into the recruiting or onboarding process here at the 49ers?”

I’m not a list guy. I do not know if that is a top 5 or top 10 but if you could say the proudest moments in life, that has got to be close to the top. It was having that resonates deeply in a community I cared so much about, they saw the value in it, and they wanted the why to become a part of the fabric of the company.

You are at an amazing team and culture. You love everybody there. You are getting to do what you want to do, and then you leave.

Part of the challenge of finding your Why is when it inspires you, it becomes an obsession, and you almost need to follow it. Forget almost. In my case, I had to follow it. I felt called to do this work. I then started to do internal introspection. My why is the start of it. That has my North Star elements and what gets me out of bed.

The parts I was able to apply more actively in my life on Monday morning were my core values. My core values, in no particular order, are belief, growth, authenticity, impact, and courage. Those are my five core values. I started to assess how I made decisions in life. Am I being congruent with those values in my why? Am I aligned? Is how I show up connected to what I believe and to who I am? Is there alignment there? When I train this, those are the three layers of our identity from the inside out, who we are, what we stand for, and how we show up. Are those connected?

If you are not in alignment, you are not being true to your purpose and you are not living your why. When I gave myself that stress test, I realized that I was not living true to my purpose. I was doing a good job, not a great job. I had some gaps. I started to tear through the muscle. I still order to implement. I found that when you apply one value, it can help you overcome a deficiency in another area. I leveraged my value of courage to make tough decisions.

When I was afraid and knew there was a risk, I’m like, “Paul, are you a man of courage or not?” I would almost have that locker room talk with myself. When I was like, “Express courage.” It helped me make other decisions. I told myself, “Paul, think of something you said you would never do but maybe you would reconsider.”

One of those things was going back to school. The school was fine. I took high school seriously because of my folks. College was a party, I passed and did not see the need. In business and sports, you do not need the three letters, MBA. In some industries, you need it. In that one, you do not. I tore through the muscle and I committed to the University of Michigan Ross School of Business. They had a Los Angeles cohort satellite program.

It was this perfect, once a month. I had no anticipation of leaving sports at the time but here is what it led to. This is the lineage and here is how I want to connect to the audience here. When you follow your why, these inexplicable connections start to happen. You reflect back and say, “If A) Did not happen, B) Does not happen, then C) Does not happen.”

When you stay true to your purpose, amazing things happen. Click To Tweet

You do not know that if you forecast forward. You need to take action. If you are being true to your purpose and letting your why to be your operating system, in this case, that is when the amazing things happen. I went back to school. The best ROI on the school was not in the classroom. For the first time in my life, I had an executive coach.

I remembered going back to my sports days. I always wanted that leader. Sometimes it is different when they work in your industry. What if they know your boss better than you? It is a weird thing but an executive coach is an executive coach. They are neutral, unbiased, and just there to serve you, with no outside agenda. Her name was Sue Ann. I talk about her tremendously in my book, The Power of Playing Offense. She was a life changer.

Sue Ann said, “Paul, I know what you do. You are the Head of Sales for the 49ers. What do you love and hate about it? What do you tolerate?” I answered all three, and she said, “Go deeper on that love bucket.” I said, “I love the people side of the business. I love building a culture, rallying a team, motivating, inspiring, and coaching.” She said, “On a good day, what percentage of your time do you do that?” I started to slouch in my chair because I knew I would not love the answer. I plus it up.

The truth was probably 10%. I told her 20%, so I would feel better about myself. She said, “Paul, if I was to wave a wand and you become your boss, does that number 20% go up, down or sideways?” I said, “More strategy, fewer people, so down.” She said, “What about your boss’s boss?” I said, “The same.” This was the question. She said, “What are you after?”

It is so simple, Gary. There is nothing magical about the question, “What are you after?” Shame on me that I had never thought about that. My NFL boss told me, and apparently, I did not listen. He said, “In life, the easiest thing to do is to stay on the treadmill you are on.” He told me that, and it did not register but now I can connect the dots and say, “That was tremendous advice.” That is where she was bringing me.

The easy thing to do was stay on the treadmill I was on. As I realized how I felt about my day-to-day, I loved the industry and the organization. I fell out of love with what I did every day. That is the juice and the fuel. Mentally, as I processed the answer to that question, I knew I was going to leave. It took about 2 to 3 months to make the call because I had to figure out what I was going to do and where I was going to go. I knew mentally that I had to follow my calling and passion. I based it on a value, which is impact. That is my number one value by far. I asked myself, “Can I create more effect inside the walls of this industry or beyond?” When I framed it like that, it was one of the easiest decisions I ever made.

Tell everybody a little bit about PurposePoint.

That is a new partnership and a new family for me. I will give a quick backstory. I was in sports until the end of 2017. I joined the same company that helped and facilitate Simon’s team, and facilitate my why discovery at the 49ers. I joined that Leadership Institute and spent 2018 and 2019 with him. I treated it like a leadership laboratory. I was such a geek of the space, the people side of the business. I just fell in love and wanted a stress test. It is the things that I thought to be true after fifteen years in sports. Are they industry-agnostic?

It became an experiment for me. I’m coaching C-Suite at one of the top airlines and I’m coaching Navy SEALs. I’m in these environments I never would have been in had I stayed in sports. It is exercising my core values of growth and belief. How much do I believe in what I do? All of these core values are this wonderful melting pot.

I’ve got to fully express them over a two-year journey with this Leadership Institute. That took me to 2019. I started to realize this ecosystem of thought leadership. It is one that you are and it is one that I’m in. A lot of your coaches are in as well. I thought, “What if I could permanently change industries from the sports industry to the leadership development industry to the people industry? How does that feel to me?

It started to excite me more by the day. I started to think about the how. How do I execute this? I know the why behind the spirit, mission, calling, and cause. How do I want to show up and what differentiates me? I’ve got to wrestle with that. I said, “What do I do? How do I express this?” The answer and the one gap I had was my old company was not massively into keynote speaking, and I love keynote speaking. I have been doing it since I was in sports.

If there are 5,000 people I speak to and 50 ways to talk to you after, those 50 people prove to you that there is impact. They prove to you that it was the right message at the right time and they were transformed. You feel like, “What if they pay this forward?” How tremendous of a scalable impact of genuine, compassionate reasons do you have?

Keynoting was this portal for a contribution for me. That is when I bet on myself. I do not have a great crystal ball because I started my own live event/speaking company in January of 2020. It was a fantastic two and a half months but everything that has happened since March of 2020 while it was certainly not easy in the beginning, I will not sugarcoat it.

I probably am not an author if I did not have months in quarantine or would not have been a proud member of PurposePoint. The way PurposePoint came to me was when I started my own company. It almost reminds me of the WHY Institute’s mantra of getting clear and playing bigger. I thought about it like, “Is there a bigger, faster, stronger version of Purpose Labs out there?” I met them in 2021 and they became PurposePoint. I’m Chief Impact Officer. Again, that core value, my number one value is impact. I’m there to make a difference. This is a beautiful message. It is why I was so drawn to it, why I was drawn to them as people, and equally as important, their mission.

BYW S4 17 | Focus On Your Purpose
Focus On Your Purpose: When you come from a place of abundance, you’re happy to help however you can.

 

Every company starts with a point of purpose. They invite people to join them on the journey. As the journey evolves, you start to create a process, measure performance, and eventually, calculate profits. There are a lot of Ps going on. I have seen that over time. The further away you get from that foundation, there is a drift away from that origin and purpose point. You start to care more about performance, profit, and process more than the people and the purpose. Those other three Ps are critical. They are necessary. Otherwise, there is no business to run but the order matters, and the harmony amongst all those Ps matters.

Most companies we see are over-flexing the performance, profit, and process. They are neglecting the people and the purpose. The outcome is you have this thing called a global pandemic, and voila, there is a Great Resignation. Why? It is because people fell out of touch with their why and purpose. They had a time-out forced by the world to look within themselves. I think of the Great Resignation as the Great Awakening. When I heard PurposePoint speak about this awakening, it drew me in and I decided to join a bigger, faster, and stronger tribe. That is why we are here.

I would love to finish with one last question for you because you have taken us on the journey. There’s a lot of great stuff in there, a lot of lessons you have learned, a lot of places you have been things, and things you have done. What is the best piece of advice you have ever given or gotten?

This one is going to hit close to home because it is right up the alley of what you are preaching every day. The best piece of advice that I have given is because I was not told this and it led to a lot of angst and maybe not loving the early stages of my career, even though it was very fun. It is because I was over-focused on the What.

I was solely focused on what I was doing. They would bring in trainers to try to help you how to do it but nobody ever told me to focus on why I do what I do. They never asked me questions about who I am, who I have been, and who I want to become. I was playing the doing game when there was a sequence to it. Doing is great but you must first know who you are being, who you are, and why.

Those two are the most powerful things you can know about yourself. The how, whether through a five-minute discovery or life experience, if you are passionate about something, you will figure out the how but you’ve got to first be a believer in the why, and the what you do becomes so much more of a blue ocean.

I used to think I had this singular purpose in life. If I do not do X, it puts so much pressure on you, and you feel like you have this one North Star. That is BS. I can do 20, 30 or 50 different things I should not because of bandwidth but I can. That was an empowering feeling. I’ve got my freedom back when I started to apply my why and live on purpose. That is what perspective I would share with everybody.

What is next for Paul? I know you are going to be doing some great stuff with us. We are looking forward to that. Let’s talk for a minute about that.

WHY Institute and Paul Epstein are meeting at the 50 to touch and inspire a billion lives. That is what’s next. The part I feel the most excited about is I’m in the earliest stages of writing my second book, which is called On Purpose. The big question I’m trying to tackle is, “Are you living your life on purpose or is life just happening to you?” My process, my how, and the system I will introduce in this playbook are when you can align your head to your heart to your hands, that is when you are living on purpose.

I have been ideating this thing that I’m calling the Triple H Equation, Head plus Heart equals Hands. If you are going to take action, make sure that your mindset and your heart are onboard because otherwise, you will fall out of purpose. You will still live but in six months, you wonder, “Why am I no longer fulfilled? Why do I feel stuck? Why do I not have a deeper burn?”

Maybe there is a self-limiting belief that is preventing you from taking action. That is the point. It is the green, yellow, red light philosophy. The Head is in, the heart is in, green light. If only 1 of the 2 is in, yellow light, then proceed with caution. If it is 0 for 2, your head and your heart are out, stop. That is a red light. This book is about living on purpose. The flip side is, it is to get people to stop running red lights in their life.

There is a company I’m going to introduce you to. That sparked something in me. I want to connect you with a girl named Liz Ellis because she was the CEO of a big production company, and she changed her position to Chief Heart Officer. It is right up your alley. She said, “I’m going to put somebody else as the CEO because I can find people to do the thinking or the head part. We do not have anybody to do the heart part, and that is my specialty. If we have got lots of hands and brains, we need the heart.” It is fascinating. You will love it.

That is the beauty of these types of conversations. We are all connecting and expanding our tribe. I would have never known a Chief Heart Officer if it was not for this conversation. When you are living your calling, and everything is coming from not only the heart but the head, and you are taking purposeful action, that is what life is all about.

If people want to get ahold of you, Paul, what is the best way for them to connect with you? How do they follow you and learn from you? What would be the best way to communicate with you?

The most powerful things you can know about yourself are who you are and who you’re being. Click To Tweet

PaulEpsteinSpeaks.com is the best way. That is the home of all things. As far as, not only where to find me but I’m somebody that I get intimate with the folks in my community, in the sense of it is me engaging and responding because that is a core value of mine. There is no pedestal here to me. I mean everything I have shared already but if you ask me why am I writing the second book, it is to democratize purpose because we all deserve to be in that space. Find me at Paul Epstein Speaks and shoot me a note. Follow me on LinkedIn and Instagram at @PaulEpsteinSpeaks. You can find me very easily and know that it is 100% me connecting with you to meet you at the 50.

Paul, thank you so much for being here. I loved our conversation, more listening for me, which is exactly what I wanted, so you did awesome.

Thanks, Gary. I’m fired up for the journey ahead.

It is going to be fun. Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you.

It is time for our last segment, which is Guess Their Why. Since we talk sports, I want to use Aaron Rodgers. He is the quarterback for the Green Bay Packers. He is one of the most successful. He has won MVP awards and is also very controversial. He had that whole thing around the COVID being immunized versus having the vaccine. I would love to know what do you think Aaron Rodgers’s why is?

I have a really good sense. I happened to listen to him a little bit more. He has been on different podcasts and various television shows. I believe that Aaron Rodgers’s why is to challenge the status quo and think differently. He is not somebody that wants to follow the rules and draw inside the lines. He wants to do it his way. He has his whole life. He has got his little man bun now. He didn’t talk about following traditional medicine. He wanted to do it his own way and get “immunized.”

If you have been reading the show and you love what you are reading, please give us a review on whatever platform you are using and bring this to more people. Our goal is to impact one billion people in the next five years. The show is going a long way toward doing that. I look forward to having you on the next episode. Thank you so much for reading.

Important Links:

About Paul Epstein

BYW S4 17 | Focus On Your PurposePaul Epstein became the go-to fixer for NBA teams, NFL franchises, and league executive offices because he’s mastered the come-from-behind win. He recognizes that victory comes from the inside, and requires an All-In culture empowered by a growth mindset and a belief that we all have unlimited potential – when we double down on our strengths, gifts, talents, and passions.

Today, people and organizations everywhere are struggling. Maybe you’ve lost sight of the fuel that motivates, inspires, and pushes you forward— or maybe you never found it. It’s purpose, and the feeling of leading with purpose is more thrilling than you can imagine.

Maybe your lack of purpose is manifesting in terms of traditional achievement— you’ve fallen behind in sales, your culture is a mess, or your growth has stalled out. Maybe you just can’t seem to turn your vision and goals into momentum and purpose. You know the What, but you just can’t seem to find the Why.

Categories
Podcast

Finding Better Ways: A Guide To Becoming An Indispensable Leader With Darby Vannier

BYW S4 16 | Indispensable Leader

 

There are always better ways to do things. As a leader, you are the ultimate innovator, the indispensable leader. You have the desire to share your thoughts with everyone in the workplace, despite generational differences. And most importantly, you follow your core values because those values create a better culture. In this episode, Darby Vannier joins Dr. Gary Sanchez to talk about his WHY of Better Way through his book, The Indispensable Leader. Darby has over 20 years of experience in leadership development and strategic consulting. He is also the Director of Operations & Technology at Leadership Resources. Learn more about his book and how to properly run an organization. Go beyond your ways and become an indispensable leader!

Watch the episode here:

Listen to the podcast here:

Finding Better Ways: A Guide To Becoming An Indispensable Leader With Darby Vannier

We are going to be talking about the why of a better way. If this is your why then you are the ultimate innovator. You are constantly seeking better ways to do everything. You find yourself wanting to improve virtually anything by finding a way to make it better. You also desire to share your improvement with the world. You constantly ask yourself questions like, “What if we tried this differently? What if we did this another way? How can we make this better?”

You contribute to the world with better processes and systems while operating under the motto, “I’m often pleased, but never satisfied.” You are excellent at associating, which means that you are adept at taking ideas or systems from one industry or discipline and applying them to another, always with the ultimate goal of improving something.

In this episode, I’ve got a great guest for you. His name is Darby Vannier. He has many years of experience in leadership development and strategic consulting. He has led effective teams of more than 100 employees, coached others into their own leadership positions, and created stability during challenging organizational transitions. Darby built his career on the philosophy that developing the right people is the key to success. Darby, welcome to the show.

Thanks a lot, Gary. It’s great to be here. I appreciate you having me on.

Leadership sounds like it’s your thing. That’s where you’ve spent your time.

I wrote the book on it.

Let’s go back to your life. Take us back through where you were born, where you grew up, what you were like in high school, and how you got on this leadership path.

It’s an interesting story. From young age, I was born in a small town in Nebraska. When I say small, it’s so small. I read several of your episodes, and you had JB Owen on. She said, “Small town of 70,000.” I was like, “That’s not very small.” I was born in a small town in Nebraska and had a great childhood. At about 1st or 2nd grade, it was the mid-80’s and the economy was bad. My father and grandfather owned a Ford dealership, and people stopped paying their bills because they didn’t have any income. It affected the dealership.

I can tell you exactly where we were, what we were eating, and what we were driving when my parents said, “We’re going to have to move. The Ford dealership is going to close. We’re going to get in the car and drive West until your dad finds a job. That’s where we’re going to end up.” We ended up in Longmont, Colorado. We were not there very long, and we made our way back to Nebraska. That set off a series of moves 5 times in 6 years at one point.

Leadership is the ability to influence others towards an overarching vision. Click To Tweet

I got to the point as a kid where I was like, “This is not worth trying to make friends.” I shut down. I remember starting in school, standing outside the classroom with the teacher and my parents trying to convince me to go in. I’m like, “I’m not doing it again.” I tell you that because whether this would have happened or not, it caused me to be an introverted person. I continue to be to this day, although there’s a broad spectrum of introverted people. I love standing in front of people and speaking, and a lot of introverts don’t.

What that meant is I got good at being self-reliant, planning things, and understanding how I was going to make things happen. When I came into college, I was the one that wanted to be in charge of every group project because I wanted it to be organized, who was doing what, that everything got done, and I could check all the boxes and everything. At a certain point, somebody asked me to participate in our residence hall council. They needed some assistance in getting funding from the student senate from our university.

I agreed to do that, and that’s where I took off from a leadership standpoint. That was a turning point because, from that time in college, they helped start 3 or 4 new campus organizations and served as president of those. From that time on all the way into my career since then, leadership has been a thing and that feeling. Going through your process in understanding the better way made total sense with that part of my life, career, and everything.

You are always in search of a better way. Where did you go to college?

I went to a small college here in Lincoln, Nebraska, called Nebraska Wesleyan University. I’ve got my Master’s online from the University of Phoenix. I was working in retail, so I was like, “I’ve got to have a creative way to do this because I don’t have set hours with what I’m doing.” The online thing worked great for me.

What was your career path initially? What did you do right out of school?

I had a pretty diverse set of circumstances throughout my career. Right out of college, I started managing at a 22-screen AMC movie theater. I was one of 6 or 7 managers at this huge movie theater. That’s how I started my career. I took over. Everybody does operations manager in a theater that size, but then you also have a specialty area. I became the HR manager and training manager, so I did all the hiring and training of all of our people.

From there, I moved further into the retail setting. I took over as a store manager of Kinko’s, which is now the FedEx office. It was quite an experience because, at that time, all the Kinkos were still 24 hours. Managing a 24-hour retail store was interesting because you work hours, go home, have dinner, and then you would get a phone call. Your overnight person was calling in sick. You have to go back and work all night then too.

I did that for years and got to the point where I’m like, “These hours are wearing on me. I’m tired of the retail setting.” I went into the nonprofit world and took over managing National Livestock Association. I did that for about eleven years and took that organization through a variety of challenges. It had a lot of challenges from the very start. It worked well for my personality because I’m good at solving problems. I took that organization, grew it, merged with another national organization.

BYW S4 16 | Indispensable Leader
Indispensable Leader: Don’t try to exist on one end or the other between manager and leader. View it more like a Venn diagram where you’re picking the best characteristics from both to become an indispensable leader.

 

It went through that whole merger process. I got to a point where I was like, “I’m ready to be done reporting to boards.” I got new bosses every single year as new board members came in. Eleven years of that was a long time. I moved into my role, which is with a leadership development company. We do leadership coaching, leadership training, and strategic planning for companies. That fits well for me, especially being on the operation side and being able to help the organization from that standpoint.

Why did you decide to go into leadership development?

I don’t know that I ever made a decision early on in my career to do that, but leadership has always been a big part of everywhere that I was. Even when I was at Kinko’s, while I was a store manager, I did leadership-based training for our district and our region. I participated in a lot of CEO groups within that organization. It has always been an important part of me.

On the people side, I tend to build strong relationships with my team members. I spend a lot of time on the hiring process to get those individuals in, and then I try to coach them along because that is important. When this opportunity came up to go to a company specializing in that, it seemed a perfect fit. That’s how I ended up doing that.

You wrote a book on leadership. What’s the title of your book?

It’s called the Indispensable Leader.

Why did you title it that way?

The whole premise of the book is this idea. You’ve heard people say, “Are you a manager? Are you a leader?” I start out the book by saying, “I think that’s the wrong question.” I know a lot of great managers who are also good leaders. By asking the question, “Are you one or the other?” It means you can’t be both. I don’t think that’s right.

I said, “Look at it like you have both manager and visionary characteristics.” You have those manager characteristics that are highly organized and process-oriented. They are the people who are asking about what we’re going to do and how we’re going to do it, and then you have the visionary side where you have those folks who are high visionary, lots of ideas. Those are the folks who are explaining why we’re going to do it. They’re highly passionate.

Leaders are made, not born. Click To Tweet

The premise of the book is you should try to become an indispensable leader. What that means is rather than trying to exist on one end or the other of that spectrum between manager and visionary, which you don’t want to be on the far end of either side. View it more a Venn diagram where you are taking the manager and leader characteristics, overlaying them, and picking the best traits of both to create yourself into this indispensable leader position. That serves you well. The book takes you through that. I use a lot of personal stories from throughout my life that illustrate various things and characteristics that are important, both from a positive and a negative side. I talked through those things as well.

How do you define leadership?

That’s difficult because everybody views it a little bit differently. In one form or another, it’s the ability to be able to influence others towards a vision. You have to be able to convey what the vision is. That might be some overarching vision, or that might be some, “We have this project to complete. This is what it’s going to look in the end.” You have to rally people behind some vision in order to accomplish some task or overarching vision.

That’s the whole essence of leadership. There’s a lot that goes into it because you have to build a lot of relationships, deal with interpersonal things between team members, and coach people along. Depending on what the task is or what you are trying to accomplish, those can be easy things or very complex things that take a long period of time to accomplish.

What is it that makes a great leader?

There are a lot of things, but a few of the specific things that I talk about in my book, one of them is great leaders are people who are curious. They want to constantly be learning. They know they don’t have all the right answers. That’s one thing when I hire people, I always say, “I’m not trying to hire a cookie cutter of Darby because we already have a Darby, and that’s plenty. I need people who can fill the areas that I know I have less skill in.” I’m looking for people to fill those gaps. How you know that is by constantly learning and thinking about what you know and trying to stay curious about things.

A great leader understands that not everything’s going to be easy. I’ve had a lot of setbacks in my career, and I talk about some of them in my book. You don’t let them sink you. You hear that a lot when you talk about people who are entrepreneurs, but that applies to just general leadership. It happens. You are dealing with people and situations. There are going to be setbacks. You have to view those as challenges and opportunities, things that only add to your experience.

When I look back at some of the challenges I’ve had, I can see how they helped me in my career. It didn’t feel great at the time, but it was beneficial in the long run. A couple of other things is that great leaders listen. They listen to understand. They don’t just listen to respond. What I mean by that is you have sometimes had people where you are talking to them, and you can tell they are trying to think in their head and know what they want to say. That’s all they’re thinking about is how they’re going to respond to you. They don’t hear what you say. You have to listen so you can understand. One of my mentors told me this at one point, and it made total sense. Spend your time listening, and when it comes time to act, you have to be able to act. You have to make the decision. That’s why you are in your role, so make the decision and move forward.

The last thing is great leaders are kind. I tell people, “Be kind.” Everybody has their own stuff going on. If you think about the team members on your team and everything they have going on, you are not going to know everything going on in their lives. They’re going to make mistakes. They’re going to have days when they get upset and say something stupid to you that they probably should not say to their boss or manager. You have to understand that everybody has stuff. You have stuff in your life that will help you as a leader. There are certainly a lot more than that, but those are some of the main things that I talk about when I coach individuals.

Do you think that being a great leader is something in you, or is it something you can learn?

BYW S4 16 | Indispensable Leader
Indispensable Leader: Great leaders listen to understand, not just to respond. Some leaders just think about how they will respond to you, so they don’t hear what you’re saying.

 

I talk about this in the book. I am a firm believer that leaders are made and not born because I’m a perfect example. I gave you that story of being an introvert. I would never have imagined that I would ever lead people until that point in college, where it shifted. That was all because of my experiences in college and the opportunities I was given.

It had nothing to do with how I was born. There are people who are born who may be more charismatic. Those things help, but that doesn’t mean they’re going to be a great leader. You can have a highly charismatic person who is not a great leader. I’m a firm believer that leaders are made and not born.

Has leadership style or teaching changed over the last years?

It has changed over some years, but it’s changed over many years if you go back further. It’s because the economy in the United States itself changes. That means that things are going to shift. We certainly have a much different workforce now than a few years ago, with challenges with hiring and folks moving on more quickly. Those create different leadership challenges that force you to adapt as time goes on.

Now, things are less dictatorial than in my father’s age, where you had a boss, and the boss said, “Do this,” and you did it. That doesn’t work as well nowadays. In some industries, that still happens, and it’s necessary. Within the military, you follow orders. That is much different. Out in the world and industry, it’s become a much softer approach where you have much more open communication and dialogue.

There is a need to have much more explanation to your team members as to why something is important. Not just, “Do this. You don’t need to know why.” They need to know why because you want them behind your product and business. You want to have that culture built because otherwise, you are not going to be successful, especially nowadays when you want to retain good employees. You’ve got to have a great culture. That means they have to understand what the company is trying to achieve and represent.

I’m going to throw a scenario at you. You’ve got a business where the team is made up of five generations now. You’ve got the Baby Boomers, Gen X, Gen Z, and Millennials. It’s challenging to lead different generations because they think differently. How do you do that? As a leader is in their 50s, trying to connect, not be dictatorial, and have a softer approach, how do you do that with so many different generations and now particularly more women than ever?

I got asked a couple of years ago to come and speak on the topic of generational differences. One of the points I made is this is not something new. They said, “Come talk to us about managing Millennials.” I said, “I don’t want to do that. Millennials get a bad rap, but I will come and talk to you about managing multiple generations.” One of the things that I said, and the whole point of my whole talk was, “This is not any different than it has ever been. There have always been new generations coming into the workforce and other generations slowly exiting.”

There has always been this mix of people. It’s different now based on the technology, products we do, and the service-based economy we live in. What it comes down to is you have to understand, in particular, learning and communication styles. This isn’t based on generational. This can be the same generation. If you think about even within one generation, individuals on your team, some people learn better by reading, hearing something, some people need to be shown. You have to take all those things into account.

True core values come from what your culture really supports. Click To Tweet

I spend a lot of time with people I coach, talking through some of those things and saying, “You need to understand and adapt to all of these. You may have a preference, but you have to understand that you are working with other individuals who have a different method of learning or communicating.” What that means is if you are dealing with a situation where you have a Boomer and a Millennial or Gen Z, those are two different types of personalities, but that doesn’t mean they can’t coexist.

That Gen Z or Millennial has to understand that when they want to talk with the Boomer, they need to either pick up a phone and talk to them or they had to walk to their office, make an appointment, sit down and talk to them. At the same time, the Boomer needs to understand that sometimes that Gen Z or Millennial doesn’t have time or want to have a face-to-face conversation all the time. They may need to send them an email or a text message nowadays.

It means that everybody has to be adaptable no matter what their generation is. Generation X is the most adaptable, and I’m in the X Generation. We are a bridge between multiple generations because of the timeframe we grew up in. That has happened throughout history. Even if you go back before the Boomers or back to the greatest generation during the World Wars, you have the transition taking place back then as well.

When I did the research for this talk, I went back and looked at different research and different articles written at the time. Every generation says the same things about the next generation. You had the greatest generation saying about the Boomers that they’re hippies and don’t care. Nowadays, you see the same thing. People say those things about Millennials. They don’t care about anything. They’re not loyal. In reality, it has been the same all throughout history.

Here’s a challenge in that same scenario that I was telling you about. This leader, the CEO, tried to be adaptable. He tried to handle all the different ages, scenarios, drama, and all the stuff that comes with each one. It ended up being a mess because nobody was happy. Everybody was trying to do everything their own way, and it didn’t work well. He started losing people, and morale was down. I keep hearing that that’s the way to go, but I don’t necessarily ever see it work. I’m curious if you see an example out there that you can think of that has worked. In theory, I get what you are saying, but in actuality, I’ve never seen it work well. Maybe you have some examples of that.

The places that I’ve seen it be successful is when people don’t focus so much on the generational differences but look at the similarities. They also focus on the company culture itself. What does the company believe, and how do people of all ages and genders affect them and get engaged in that culture? That is a challenge. It takes a lot to build a culture, and it takes a lot to change it if you have a culture that you are not happy with.

Here is the thing about culture. A lot of companies have core values and think that’s what they build their culture around. We have these core values and put them on the wall. We’re trustworthy and have a high amount of respect. The problem is that those are not true core values. True core values are what is it that your culture supports. What is it your people believe? How do they act on a day-to-day basis? If you look at that and determine what those things are, and they’re not what you imagine or want them to be, then you have to slowly start making a shift. It takes a concerted effort.

In the company I’m in, we altered our core values a number of years ago. We were not having a major issue, but we decided it was time to go back and reevaluate them. We spent a lot of time talking with all of the team members and understanding where people were. We adjusted them. You could do that, and then you could hang them on the wall and say, “These are our core values.” It doesn’t work, and it doesn’t help the culture.

It took our leadership team constantly talking about them. When an issue came up, when something good happened, we would say, “How does this relate to the core values?” We would constantly ask those questions. In team meetings, we would ask individuals, “How did you see your team members over the last week? Use our core values.” We’ve done that now consistently for the last couple of years. It took a long time, but eventually, that became so ingrained in our culture that we used those core values. Everybody believes them and onboard with them. We use them to hire and use them to make decisions on firing, and as we do coaching, we use them with our clients. Focusing on it from that aspect instead of the generational differences is where I’ve seen the most success happen with companies.

BYW S4 16 | Indispensable Leader
Indispensable Leader: As a leader, keep learning because change is going to happen. You have to be highly adaptable. So make sure that you’re constantly curious about trying new things.

 

What are the core values of your company? Give us an example of what you were talking about how something connects to those core values so we can put this into practice.

They are, “Better together, continuous development, authenticity, get things done, and love what we do.” All of those five things are what we focus on. When we come into a team meeting, you hear a lot of times where team members will reference other team members for better together. They’ll say, “I talked to so-and-so and needed help on this with this client. We were having this issue. They stepped up and helped me out.” Those are great examples.

The authenticity piece is a great core value because we use that with team members. Are you truly being authentic? That doesn’t mean being trust trustworthy. It doesn’t mean being honest because you can be honest with somebody and not be authentic. What authentic means is that you don’t hold something back even by saying the unsaid thing. I can tell you something that is true, but if I hold something back, you don’t get the whole story.

We use authenticity within our team. It’s also a great core value with our clients because sometimes we have to use them, especially coaching somebody. Sometimes we have to say, “One of our core values is authenticity. I’m going to be upfront with you here on this.” You give them some honest feedback. Sometimes you’ll be authentic because you screwed up. For example, we billed somebody wrong. You call them up and say, “One of our core values is authenticity. We want to be upfront. We messed up, and we billed you wrong. Here’s the situation. We want to make it right and work through it with you.” That’s what I mean. You have to ingrain those things in everything you do every single day.

Let’s talk for a minute about culture. Everybody talks about culture. You’ve got to have a great culture. What the heck is culture?

I’m not sure I have a great definition for it. It is a buzzword. You hear it a lot. When we focus on culture, we tend to focus on identifying your true core values and what your beliefs are. That’s truly what the underlying piece of your culture is on how you live. When you do the work and get into it, you may find that you have a negative culture or a culture that you don’t want. That takes quite a bit to shift. It may mean a total shift in how you lead, or it may mean that what will happen is you are going to realize certain team members are not the right people in the right seats, or they don’t belong in your organization at all, or they may realize that.

As you start to shift the culture, if they were adept at the old culture and were happy with having the negative culture, they will eventually figure out that they will not fit in the new organization. Those core values will lend themselves to help you build that base which is the basic underlying piece of what culture is in every organization. It gets a lot harder in large organizations because you have so many levels as you get bigger. Sometimes you have to take that down to a department and what that looks like within a department or location.

I was at an event, and the gentleman that was speaking had built a very large plumbing company from nothing. He talked about the origin of his business with his wife. Now they’ve got a few hundred employees. He has done well. He built it all on culture and invested quite a bit into his people, which you don’t see in that industry that people do.

He said it took him 30 years to build an amazing culture and 3 months to destroy it by stepping away and bringing in a new leader, and then it took him another 2 years to get back what he had before. I asked him, “What was the difference between the great and bad cultures?” He said, “It was leadership. It’s the leader that brings the culture, which then makes things better.” Culture has always been that hard thing. Everybody says culture eats strategy for breakfast, but how do you build a culture? You are saying, identify your core values and beliefs. What do you do with them from there to build that culture?

There's no silver bullet to building a good culture. It takes a lot of time and effort. Click To Tweet

You have to use them. We took our new core values when we did those years ago and designed our entire hiring process around them. We don’t do the old-style employee reviews, but we do quarterly one-on-ones with our team members. We built that process around the core values. In each of those meetings, we talk through the core values and say, “How do you think you are doing on this one?” I would say to them, “I agree with you,” or I would say, “I disagree. I don’t think you are doing as well on this one. Here’s what I mean.”

It’s not meant to be a punishment. It’s meant to help both of us. Maybe you’ve heard of the author, Gino Wickman, and the traction process. That’s what they do. They have a thing called the People Analyzer meeting. They do a plus-minus on core values. That’s what I’m getting at. You use those core values in everything you do, and it takes a long time.

The gentleman you talked about took 30 years to get it right. You are constantly trying to evolve that. That is true. It does not take very long to ruin it. We’ve seen it with our clients a number of times. We were working with a CEO that was highly engaged in developing their people, and they were working with us to help them do that. They exited, or in a lot of cases, they retire, and another person comes in, and that person doesn’t care as much. They’re a little bit more dictatorial. They want the stuff to get done. The culture takes a nosedive.

We have seen the same scenario where the original person was brought back in and had to fix everything again. There’s not a silver bullet to building a good culture. It takes a lot of work and time. When I approach leaders, they always want to have, “What’s the easy button for that?” There is not an easy button for that one. It takes a lot of effort.

Leadership is not easy, that is for sure. I spent a year in this leadership course, knowing that being a dentist for 32 years does not qualify me to lead a global company. I wish it did. I don’t know what qualifies somebody to be a good leader. What do you think?

It comes with a certain number of traits and some of those things that I talked about in making sure that it’s somebody who wants to constantly learn, evolve, and adapt to change easily so that they can be successful over time. Somebody who is s understanding and understands they don’t have the answers to everything and are not always right. I stated that I try to hire the right people. I’ve coached employees throughout my career where I’ve had folks who were hesitant to give you their opinion.

I’m like, “You need to tell me. I hired you for this reason. Argue with me, tell me why I’m wrong. I want you to tell me why I’m wrong. We are going to get to a point where I will have to make a decision, and we’ll move on, but tell me why I’m wrong right now.” That’s a great characteristic for a leader because that means that they’re open to learning and trying new things. That means that they’re going to be good listeners. They have to be understanding. I come back to those core things as things that are good for leaders.

I’m curious if we’re going to find in the future that the soft style leadership, listening to everybody’s needs, trying to be there for everyone and understand everybody, and emotional intelligence. I wonder if we’re going to find out that that’s dead wrong and that dictatorial is where we need to be. It seems like there’s a swing back and forth. Now we’re saying, “Dictatorial work. You need to be there and present and listen,” and all the stuff that we talked about. I wonder if that’s going to end up being a better leader than someone who goes in and says, “This is what we’ve got to get done. Let’s go do it, suck it up, quit crying, and let’s go.”

The most successful situations are going to be the ones that have a combination of the two. It was what I was saying where you have to listen, but you have to make a decision and move forward at a certain point. With my better way of personality, I want to get stuff done. We are going to find a better way to do it, and then we’re going to do it.

“I don’t feel like it right now. I’m sorry, Darby. I’m not emotionally here for that.”

BYW S4 16 | Indispensable Leader
The Indispensable Leader: How to Use Your Inner Manager and Visionary to Achieve Leadership Success

I am a very open leader, but I don’t have the patience for that level of attitude. We would have to have conversations about that. You are right. There will be shifts back and forth. It also depends a lot on the labor market because the company has struggled to find people nowadays. Eventually, it will shift again, and there will be high unemployment. There will be people that are looking for jobs.

If you got companies who are like, “I can go out and hire five people today.” It makes it a lot easier for them to say, “Do your job. I don’t want to talk about it.” There are shifts, but ultimately, I believe that having the combination of the two things. You’ve got to have it at a certain point, and then you’ve got to act and get stuff done because that’s how we make our money as a company. That is where you are going to see the most success. That has been the case throughout time.

The situation I gave you with the gentleman who went down the path of trying to be soft, understands everybody, listens to everybody’s needs, tries to meet everybody’s needs, and creates his organization based on that has become quite disillusioned. He’s like, “Screw this. I’m only hiring people here who want to work and contribute. Leave your stuff at home, come here, and let’s go accomplish something and we’ll see how that goes.” I’m watching it to see he’s swinging the pendulum in the other direction in a matter of months. We’ll see if that ends up being a more successful path for him.

That is the same situation. I don’t have time for what you described at the beginning of that either. It’s all about making sure you have that hiring process. I want my people and leaders to be open and understanding and have those things, but we have to get the stuff done. That is the priority. If you can’t do both, then it’s not going to work out. We are going to have to find somebody else, and you’ll move on to where you want to move on to. If you want to come and do a certain activity all time, there are jobs out there for you. Doing what I do in my company is not where you need to be now.

The last question I have for you is, what is the best piece of advice that you have ever been given or you’ve ever given?

It’s the same for both because it’s things that I’ve heard from mentors over time, but it comes back to some of those things that I already said. One of the biggest things is to keep learning because change is going to happen, and we have to be adaptable, especially as leaders. Make sure that you are constantly curious about trying new things. The other thing is something that comes up all the time when I coach people. It gets back to the easy button thing. Understand there are going to be setbacks. This is not easy. Leading people and organizations is difficult. If you are an entrepreneur, starting a company is difficult. It’s hard. There are going to be challenges.

Use those as opportunities, step up to the plate, accomplish what you need to accomplish, and then look back at everything you learned. I was part of a group in early 2020. The group that we were meeting was local business leaders. I say local because we had people in multiple states that were getting together to talk about how we could support each other through the challenges that had arisen. A lot of people had business challenges very early on in the process.

I remember one of the things that I said to the group, I’m like, “Imagine what we will learn this year. Imagine a year from now, when we look back, what we will have learned.” It was interesting because we had some restaurants that were in that group. The restaurant industry is perfect. Look at that entire shift that they made. They had takeout before, but suddenly you saw curbside, more takeout, bigger takeout windows, and places that were popping up that were takeout only. Imagine adapting to that.

My church is a great example. We have a pretty big church, so we had a video recording that went on the local cable station already, but we didn’t stream. We have the capability to, but we never did. We switched to streaming overnight. We learned how to do it well and put the words up to the songs on the bottom. All the stuff that we learned is a great example for leaders because you have to be able to adapt and learn throughout time. That gets to that other piece where not everything is going to go how you think it’s going to go. Stuff comes up.

How did it feel for you when your why came up as a better way?

I didn’t know what it meant until I read everything. As I read it, the vast majority of everything made total sense. I’m constantly looking for a better way to do things. You’ll hear a lot of the word efficiency. You hear me say a lot, “How can we make this more efficient?” You hear the word scalable like, “Is this process going to be scalable? That’s great for us as a $4 million company. Is it going to work for us as a $7 million or a $10 million company?” I use those words a lot. Also, looking through the stuff with building processes and everything, I’m very big on that. If we can create a process to make it more efficient and scalable, let’s do that. It pretty much made total sense.

Understand that there are going to be setbacks in everything you do. Click To Tweet

My why is a better way as well. I resonate with everything you are saying because that’s the same process I’m going through in my head. Our wheels are clicking together.

We have to be careful because those wheels start as soon as I hear an idea. I work with a very high visionary person, and I’m right in the middle, if you’d look at it as a spectrum, maybe a little bit on the visionary side. I have a lot of manager characteristics. I work with a very high visionary. He comes up with a lot of ideas, and I have to be careful because if he starts telling me ideas, I immediately start thinking of all the problems associated with them. That could be a challenge as well, so you have to balance that.

Darby, if there are readers who want to reach out to you, follow what you are doing, or hire you to come work with their leadership team or speak at their event. What’s the best way for them to get in touch with you?

I’m pretty much on all social media. I’m most active on LinkedIn at Darby Vannier. My website is BeIndispensable.com. You can go there and the social media links are there. There’s a contact form and it has information about me and my book. If they visit BeIndispensable.com, that will get them everything they need.

Darby, thank you so much for being here. I enjoyed talking with you.

Thanks a lot, Gary. I appreciate it.

It’s time for our new segment, Guess The Why. For this segment, I want to use somebody that’s current. If you are watching the TV series Yellowstone with Kevin Costner, you know his daughter named Beth. Beth is an attorney. She does not follow the rules, beats to her own drums, and is willing to throw a tantrum, fight, kick, and scratch to do whatever she needs to do to win. If you have watched it, you’d know who I am talking about. I would love to know what you think her why is because, for me, it’s obvious.

I believe Beth’s why is to challenge the status quo and think differently. She does not do law the way everybody else does. She says whatever she wants to say. She drives and creates for people in ways they never thought of. I’m sure she solves legal problems in an outside-the-box solution. I believe Beth’s why is to challenge the status quo. What do you think? If there is an area for you to write below, go ahead and do that because I love your perspective. If you have not yet discovered your why, you can do so at WhyInstitute.com with the code PODCAST50. You’ll be able to get it at half price. Thank you so much for reading, and I will see you next time.

Important Links:

About Darby Vannier

BYW S4 16 | Indispensable LeaderA respected operations executive whose diverse background includes leading multimillion-dollar, multilocation organizations and turning around underperforming operations into profitable, viable companies. His career spans 20+ years in corporate and nonprofit areas, where he’s leveraged broad, cross-functional experience to provide a holistic approach to operations management. He also specialize in revamping operational processes to strengthen efficiencies, enact long-term change, and improve overall performance.

A true servant leader, he is committed to hiring and developing talent who remain loyal and grow with the organization. A large part of his success comes from forging strong partnerships with colleagues and stakeholders alike, as well as respectfully challenging ideas, gaining consensus among groups, and establishing cohesive, positive cultures.

**CAREER HIGHLIGHTS**

➺ Drove high growth at a professional services organization by developing new processes and best practices.

➺ Executed a major restructure for Alpaca Owners Association and guided the organization through several strategic planning initiatives; formulated and carried out strategies, hired and built teams, created new policies/procedures, headed rebranding and PR efforts, implemented the IT infrastructure, established HR functions, and developed training protocols.

➺ Facilitated a smooth merger of 2 competing national associations (Alpaca Registry Association and Alpaca Owners & Breeders Association); navigated several aspects of the merger, including operational and legal functions, board communication, and negotiations.

**EXPERTISE**

Operations Management, Restructuring, Change Management, Strategic Planning & Execution, Budgeting, Business Partnering, Process Improvement, Relationship Development, Organizational Development, Trend Analysis, Policy Development, Financial Management, Negotiations, Team Leadership, Mergers, Training & Development, Public Relations, Expense Control

Categories
Podcast

The Strength Of Your WHYs: Finding A Better Way To Success With Raymond Kemp

BYW S4 15 | Finding A Better Way

 

You are the ultimate innovator of your life, and as a person, you are bound to seek a better way to do everything. So how can you make things better? The strength of your WHY is the same thing that presents as a challenge. Nothing is ever “right” because things can always be “better.” Raymond Kemp is an experienced senior executive in leadership and Human Resources. He joins Dr. Gary Sanchez in this episode to talk about WHY we tend to find and pursue a better way of life. Listen in as they discuss the WHYs of improvement and the endpoint of contentment.

Watch the episode here:

Listen to the podcast here:

The Strength Of Your WHYs: Finding A Better Way To Success With Raymond Kemp

In this episode, we are going to be talking about the why of a better way. If this is your why then you are the ultimate innovator and you are constantly seeking better ways to do everything. You find yourself wanting to improve virtually anything by finding a way to make it better. You also desire to share your improvement with the world. You constantly ask yourself questions like, “What if we tried this differently? What if we did this another way? How can we make this better?” You contribute to the world with better processes and systems while operating under the motto, “I’m often pleased but never satisfied.”

You are excellent at associating, which means you are adept at taking ideas or systems from one industry or discipline and applying them to another, always with the ultimate goal of improving something. I have a great guest for you. His name is Raymond Kemp. He is a highly experienced Senior Executive in leadership and Human Resources. He has years of experience at the highest levels of the US Navy as the Fleet Master Chief of Europe and Africa. In his duty assignment, Raymond directed and influenced over 56,000 service members, civilians, contractors and family members across the European and African continents.

He revolutionized Naval leadership education by creating the seminal document, “Laying the Keel,” with an emphasis on character and professional competency. More than 30,000 senior enlisted trainees were impacted by this document. Widely recognized for his exceptional leadership skills, Fleet Master Chief Kemp has received honors from the Office of the President of the United States and the Department of the Navy. Joe Biden appointed him to the American Battle Monuments Commission. Chief Kemp, welcome to the show.

Thank you very much. It is a pleasure and honor to be here with you.

This is going to be a lot of fun. I have been looking forward to having you on the show for a while. I am glad we finally get to do this.

I have had the opportunity to be connected to the WHY Institute and it has been an honor. I have been watching. I was like, “I wonder if I’m going to ever get on to the show?” Here we are and I’m excited about it.

How tall are you?

Leadership is the willingness to step out and be the example; to walk that mission, vision, and guiding principles in a way where others are willing and able to follow. Click To Tweet

I go about 6’1”, probably 230 pounds of twisted steel and sex appeal. I have my fair share of time in the weight room and on the track.

Where were you born? Where did you grow up? What were you like in high school?

I was born in the great nation of Texas and raised in Oklahoma. In high school, I ran track and played football. I was thin growing up. If the wind blew hard, I could feel it. I was lightning fast. I have been a quarterback on a football team in Oklahoma which that is absolutely a sanctuary of both Oklahoma and Texas. Things worked out in my favor. I was shy and finding my way. Maybe because I was thin and I had a bit of a speech impediment, I had a lot of ideas but not necessarily a voice. As I made my way into the Navy, I joined the Navy 30 days after I graduated high school so things accelerated pretty quickly.

Why the Navy?

I was born in the ’60s raised in the ’70s. I vividly remember 60 minutes talking about stress and hypertension in those days. I have seven aunts. They would get up in the morning and they would be going off to work but I had an uncle who would be at home. I would go over to this little town called El Reno in the summertime. They would all go off to work and I thought to myself, “I don’t want that stress.” My uncle stayed there with my cousins and me. He would say, “Go out there, pick up the twigs underneath that tree and bring in some baby carrots.” I thought, “That is the job I want.”

I didn’t realize that he was a Marine. He served in World War II, Korea, Vietnam and retired from the services. Once I realized that that was his way to make ends meet and he had retired, I was like, “I want to do that.” When the recruiters came to the school, I took the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery Test. I did pretty well on it. The Navy had a great offer and promises to see the world. They had some Gucci uniforms. It was an easy decision for me.

It seemed like a better way.

I was pretty decent at football and good at track. I had a couple of offers to do some things in school but I was tired of school. It wasn’t that I wasn’t good at it. I didn’t like it anymore. There was a different opportunity or a better way and there I went.

What was it like going into the Navy at that age and time?

I want to be very clear about this. When I was making my way through, it was what it was. It was the mid-’80s. You think about leadership in the Navy at the mid-level and higher-level is once you get into the 15, 20-year mark. I joined the Navy in 1986. The leaders there had joined the Navy in 1966 or the late-’60s and early-’70s. That means that they were living through the civil rights era and a very grotesque social climate in America at the time for somebody who is Black like me. When I joined the Navy, it was what it was. I was born in Texas and raised in Oklahoma.

I had been called all sorts of names and treated in various different ways but I learned how to survive. When I joined the Navy, I became a Data Processing Technician. I went to my first ship which is an aircraft carrier out of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. My first interaction with a master chief, the 1% of the Navy, was to check into the ship. I had never seen one in person. I’m expecting to go into the Automated Data Processing Center which is where all the computer dudes went. He told me, “I don’t allow any people in a computer room so you are going to go over here and do this manual labor.”

That language to some people might be shocking but to me, it was just language. My aunts, mother and grandmother were fierce angels. They told me of this rhyme, “Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.” That language he used meant nothing to me. I had been told that the Navy and Military was a meritocracy. I was like, “Where do I go?” Once I found out where I went, I went in and did my best regardless of whether it was what I was trained to do as a Computer Technician or not. Ultimately, it ended up working out. I made my way into the Automated Data Processing Center and just crush grooving and body moving after that.

BYW S4 15 | Finding A Better Way
Finding A Better Way: Life and death are real things in a combat environment, and there is a greater measure of obligation given to an enlisted person.

 

How long did it take you to get to what you went there to do in the first place?

In those days, it was common to do some temporarily assigned duties. KP duty was what it was called in the old days. For me, it took nine months. It was supposed to be a three-month event but for me, it ended up being a nine-month event. During that nine months, what he meant for my bad, worked out for my good because my goal was to go in, make E-5, retire and go back to Oklahoma. He had sent all of the other Blacks into that particular division. As soon as I got there, I was like, “There is an E-5 right there.” If he can do it, I know I can do it. He will probably help me if I ask a question and he showed me the way. That was exactly what happened. By the time that nine months was over, I was already fully prepared to make the first advancement in my career and I did. I’m ahead of my peers and they say, “I was on my way.”

You went from doing KP duty to doing data processing. How long were you there?

I was in the data processing field and information systems technology field for twenty years. I transitioned into the command path of the Navy. I was there for four years, from ‘86 to ‘90. I did some time in the first Gulf War which started around 1991. I was stationed in Washington, DC at the time. I was hopping around the globe. My first tour of duty was the bootcamp in San Diego but then from Philly back to San Diego to Washington, DC. I’ll be in California. I moved around a lot.

Twenty years in the IT field and then you set into leadership.

The Navy path is you are either in your technical field or at a certain rank. You can transition to a strict leadership field. At the 24-year mark, I transitioned from the Information Systems Technician Master Chief, which was the actual work was the top of the field at the time. I was stationed in Pentagon and then I transitioned to be a Command Master Chief. I had the opportunity to be selected to go to the Army Sergeants Major Academy, which is a full school year out in El Paso at Fort Bliss. I went to my first ship as the Command Master Chief. The Command Master Chief, Commanding Officer and Executive Officer are the triads of command. The three who are in charge of the fighting, training and administration of the ship.

People really don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. Click To Tweet

Is it common for someone to go from KP to a Master Chief?

The KP would be the very beginning of the career. That nine months’ worth of training and hard labor because I was painting walls, pulling tile up off of the deck on the ship, re-putting a tile down and replacing desks and racks and things like that. Lots of miscellaneous and heavy labor stuff. That was the beginning of my career.

Once I transitioned into the computer room after those nine months, I was able to stay there and then maneuver within the information systems technician responsibilities to the highest levels. At that point, I made that transition. It’s not common because according to the US Code Title 10, the law, only 1% of the Navy can be master chief. It’s uncommon to make it to master chief. Once we get there, it’s about 330,000 people in the Navy. In that top 1%, there were only 600 that were command master chiefs.

Why didn’t you quit? When you weren’t given what you wanted when you were told to do something you didn’t want to do and you were told in a way that wasn’t nice, why not quit?

I’m from a group of people who taught me the value of hard work and let me know that I’m always representing somebody other than myself. Quitting was not an option. There was not necessarily a point in my career where I was thinking about other people. I was often thinking about a better way for me to get into a position to have some impact and influence over this organization. From a division, departmental level, onboard the ship, to the entirety of the ship and perhaps even a fighting force, I sought after that. I knew that I wanted to have an influence but when I got to the twenty-year point, the time that I could retire. I was 37 years old. I could get a good pension and go back home but I still have things to do. I realized that I could go higher.

What was the transition like going from IT to leadership?

The pathway in the Navy had given me exposure to more than IT. When I was on an aircraft carrier, we had approximately 5,000 or so people. Amongst that 5,000, maybe only 100 to 200 worked in combat systems. As a duty section leader, when the ship pulls into the port whether it be overseas or at home in America, there has to be a small contingent that stays onboard the ship in case there is an emergency like fighting fires or getting the ship underway. In the event of something as catastrophic as 9/11, be able to put the ship out to sea and then fight the ship at sea. As a duty section leader, I have exposure to all different ratings and professional responsibilities onboard the ship.

BYW S4 15 | Finding A Better Way
Finding A Better Way: It sounds seductive to have a flat organization where everybody just seems to be equal, but there has to be some structure there.

 

I enjoyed having the impact and influence on other professions than just information systems. I knew I wanted to go to a higher level. The day that I got advanced to master chief, my Command Master Chief said, “I want your package on my desk on Monday. No excuses.” He too, wanted me to go into that rating. Once I made that transition and had the opportunity to use my intellectual agility to help people solve their problems at a higher level, it was extremely challenging. It was very satisfying because my perspective, background and job were different from other jobs.

For example, an Aviation Ordnanceman is someone who builds bombs, loads them on aircraft, we launch those bombs and deal with data. The information system technician has a different processing level of troubleshooting problems and things like that. When I had the opportunity to share this different perspective with these other jobs, it was fulfilling to see them grab ahold of those ideas and realize there is a better way.

How long were you in leadership and a Master Chief?

I was a Master Chief for eleven years and I was in that leadership position for that same amount of time.

What is it like leading in the Military versus now you are out of the Military and leading in the civilian world?

It’s not very much of a difference. The difference is that there as different risks. Life and death is a real thing in a combat environment and onboard ships. There is a greater measure of obligation given to an enlisted person. There is a higher level of loyalty built into, “I will stay here without question for at least four years until I transfer to another command or until I met my obligation and I get out of the Navy.” In the civilian world, we know there is not that same measure of loyalty to an organization without some leadership built into it.

It is interesting that we are having this conversation because I was playing some golf with a friend of mine who is a colonel here at the Air Force base and is about to get out. I did some work with the Air Force. I found it interesting how he was able to talk to the people he was in charge of. The word choices were not necessarily what I would expect in the private world or civilian world versus what he was able to say. You could order someone to do something as the leader, whereas in the civilian world it’s a different conversation, at least that was my perspective. How do you feel about that?

When you're able to express a measure of care, you create a measure of trust. Click To Tweet

There is a difference in the way we communicate in the Military than in the civilian sector. That goes to a couple of things. First and foremost, there is an expectation of a measure of aggression, honor, courage, commitment and dedication to the mission you are assigned to and the organization. Whereas in the civilian sector, there may not be that same measure of obligation. There may not be that, “I’m all in or I’ll die for you,” in there. Because there is a disparity like that then there is a lot more influence that has to go into the leadership rather than by order. The hardest and biggest challenge for myself and those like myself who had turned a certain rank, even with that colonel is learning the language.

Also, learning that I have a certain level of care that I will be able to express to you through language but also in the way that I treat you with dignity and respect will generate some momentum. What I have found, at least as I have talked to others who have decided to go and work in the civilian sector, what they have done is they have realized that, “My language has to be different but my heart does it. I can still lead with my heart. I can still let somebody know that I’m all in for them. I shift my language.” That same measure of influence is in place and then they can still lead the way.

I asked him this question after I went out to work with him because it was so odd for me. I haven’t been in the Military. We went and had lunch and he walked into the room and everybody stood up. He walks to the front of the line and gets his food. I’m right there with him and it’s an odd experience if you’re not used to that. I said, “You’re in here, you’re the guy and you go outside of the base and nobody knows and you don’t get that same treatment. What is that like for you mentally to be the guy in there but nobody else knows that?”

Each service does it differently. Some folks believe that leaders should eat last and all their troops should eat their food first. They should ensure that they are taken care of. When they come in and are troops, sailors, airmen soldiers and Marines, they see that they allow them to eat first. If they are eating last, that generates a certain measure of sanctity within the organization. For the Navy and the senior officers in the Air Force, what ends up happening is that they are continuously reminded that you are just a man. There is a trusted agent that they have that is close to them that reminds them that they are not a God. As the Stoics would say, “You are just a man.”

When that transition takes place then we are able to make that transition realizing and knowing that only in certain environments will folks stand or make a hole so you can get by. Interestingly, my aunts came to visit. I’m twenty or so years into the Navy. They are going to see Oprah Winfrey. She had a play on Broadway. My ship happened to be in town. They are like, “We should go by and see Raymond.” They come to the ship. We have about 10,000 visitors per day. The line is a mile long. I tell them, “Tell the taxi cab to come to the street.” They come to the very front. They have been with me my whole life.

We took some photos but it was their first time to see me in uniform and my workspace. The line is probably a quarter-mile. Maybe about a par five from where we were standing to get to the pier. I put my hand on the sailor’s shoulder and I was like, “Do you mind if we get by?” He looked over his shoulder, he saw me and he was like, “No problem. Hold on, would you take a picture with my mom?” I click. We take a photo and then he shouts, “Make a hole.” Hundreds of people moved out of the way. My aunts are looking at each other like, “What in the world is going on?” They slip into character. They didn’t slow down at all. They stepped right in between everybody and made their way up to the front.

I share that long story with you that we realized that it’s only in those environments where that takes place, not at the grocery store, if we go to Ruth’s Chris or anything like that but only in that environment. That transition in the workplace is a bit tough because you expect people to bow down to that measure of service you have got before, especially in a meritocracy. That transition into the workplace and those folks not maneuvering that way is somewhat of a challenge for Military members.

BYW S4 15 | Finding A Better Way
Finding A Better Way: With a good attitude and a positive outlook, you can create an environment where the folks in your stead realize when you care about them.

 

Let’s talk about Laying the Keel.

Thinking back to the days when we were building wooden ships and that one hard piece of wood that went down the middle was the keel. We build out from there. What we had done in the Navy is we had gotten away from leadership fundamentals in a step-by-step way to growing and building. In laying the keel, there are several different portions of the document and I wasn’t responsible for the entirety of the document. I was responsible for the initiation of the senior enlisted portion of the document. We methodically built out leadership waypoints for sailors as they make their way through their careers.Whether it be Sailor 360, a very specific educational program that they went offsite to learn to a means of when you get back to your command and continuing that conversation. The Laying the Keel document itself was the formality of building out a sailor individually throughout their career. There are different waypoints so that they would be soundly built to make their way to those senior positions.

It sounds like it’s something that would be good for businesses as well.

There is no doubt. These days, it’s important for there to be some measure of hierarchy, though we seem to be seeking after very flat organizations. It sounds seductive to have a flat organization where everybody seems to be equal but there has got to be some structure there. Whether you have a very young person who comes in like NASA who has got innovative, great ideas that are rocket science, I’m sure that is absolutely important.

It’s smart to train folks in such a way where one, they know how to talk to people. Two, they know how to put those structures in place so that they can, in a very balanced way, award and celebrate those things that are done properly. I agree in the civilian sector, it would be very useful to ensure that people, as they make their way towards the C-suite or executive suite, they have the proper training to maneuver in that space once they get there.

Do you do leadership training?

Your attitude determines your altitude. Click To Tweet

I do some training and coaching but the majority of what I do is come in and talk to them about leadership. Every now and then that leads to, “Exactly what do you mean by the ABCs of leadership?” I can then talk to them about attitude, belief, character and how to grow those leaders in a fashion that you want them to leave the company.

How do you define leadership?

Leadership is the willingness to step out and be the example, to walk that mission, vision and guiding principles in such a way where others are willing and able to follow you.

Is leadership something you can learn? Is leadership something you either have or don’t? What have you seen?

In my experience, it’s much the same as my daughter, Mahogany is an uncanny skill at throwing a football. She has a flat-out canon and it’s not something that I taught her. She got some decent DNA. She can throw a very tight spiral at a great distance. Leadership, in the same way, there are some people who have the ability to communicate with others in such a way that it inspires confidence. There are some folks, like myself, who may not have started with a high level of confidence but grew and developed it based on experience and then became a leader. Oftentimes, there is an argument between do you build leaders or are born? I would say both. There are some who are born into it and they can become better. There are some who may not necessarily be born into it but we can develop those leadership traits to help them get there.

What was the biggest turning point in your life or career where you said, “Now, I’m a leader,” because you said you were shy? You didn’t feel like you had a great speech. You went into the Military and at some point, you had to become a leader. What was that turning point for you?

It happened early. What I didn’t mention is that growing up in elementary school and high school, I played sports and oftentimes because of my athletic prowess, I was somewhat of a leader. I wasn’t always a team captain but once I joined the Navy, I was four days in and they told me, “You are the sixth squad leader.” They told me in bootcamp that Navy means Never Getting Volunteered Yourself. I was responsible for twenty other folks within my bootcamp company. It was at that point that I realized that even though I may have this slur, lisp or whatever name that other people might give it. I’ve got to get over that. I’ve got to help people on my team understand how to do push-ups and things like that.

BYW S4 15 | Finding A Better Way
Finding A Better Way: When you’re doing things in goodness and in order, when you’re doing things with character, they’ll trust to know that no matter what the face of your organization is, the standard is maintained.

 

It was at that point when the leadership was thrust upon me that I realized, “This is what my life is going to be. I’m going to lead the way the whole way.” That was exactly what happened. At different levels throughout my career, there was a time when I was assigned to do something that I didn’t fully know. Whether it be a technical thing or a warfighting event, I didn’t fully understand how to do it specifically but I understood how to tap into the people who did, build a resilient team and then fight one.

How do you do that? How do you tap into the people you have and build a resilient team?

The first thing that has to happen is to express a level of care. It has become common to say that people don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care. When you are able to express that measure of care, that creates a measure of trust because trust is super important. The next thing would be the attitude. I come from an environment where they say that your attitude determines your altitude. With a good attitude and a positive outlook, you create an environment where the folks in your stead realize that when you care about them too, you have a solid attitude. It’s not just a good attitude despite it all. It’s because you have studied and prepared.

The next is belief and character. First of all, belief comes when you have studied, surveyed the territory and helped people understand that what we are doing is a righteous event and stuff that needs to be done. Doing those things with a character that is when no one else is looking, people know that you are giving it your all and that there is honor and integrity in what you are doing. That creates an environment where those folks working with you, no matter what their background or differences, there may be between you that you are trustworthy and people will follow after that.

That is the ABCs, Attitude, Belief and Character. It’s almost like the ABC.

That level of care is the first step in building trust.

You mentioned that because of your stature and size, you could be easily misinterpreted. How have you overcome that?

If I had known the language of my why, how and what, that would certainly have helped. In the last years of my career, I carried probably between 250, 260 pounds. I was hulking in my presence. I used to tell people that this is all leadership. If I would come into this base, I have my hand on the thermostat just on my physical presence. Because of that, it made some people uncomfortable. If I had the language of, “I am truly here to find a better way. The way that I’m going to do that is by challenging the status quo and traditional thinking, which may be a bit intrusive. I assure you that what you are going to feel when I leave is that there has been a contribution made to everyone who works here and to the greater good of the mission of this particular organization.”

There are some people who have the ability to communicate with others in a way that inspires confidence. And there are some who may not have started with a high level of confidence but grew and developed it based on experience. Click To Tweet

I didn’t have that at the time so I had to prove it. I would enter into a space. I would go in and talk to people, especially as the Inspector General for sailor programs for the Navy. It was often intimidating. I would come into a space and look to establish that level of care and the sincerity that would allow me to prevent misinterpretation or unexpected coercion.

How long have you been out?

I retired in 2019.

How has that been for you?

It’s been interesting. It was a little clunky. I spent about a year in Virginia and then COVID came. I wasn’t sure exactly what I wanted to do whether I wanted to go work for another organization or start Kemp Solutions and do that full-time, which I chose to do. It has been exciting, rewarding and fulfilling because, first of all, to be an entrepreneur is super-duper challenging but then connecting with good people and finding out information helped me become a better person. When I connected with Dan, Lisa Schermerhorn and got introduced to yourself and the WHY Institute. My life accelerated in a way that I can see inside myself and I’m thinking, “I can’t wait to share this with others.” It has been an exciting time.

With Kemp Solutions, who would be your ideal client? Who are you looking to work with?

Not necessarily trapped into a particular industry but a diverse organization that is looking to build their resiliency and loyalty within their organization are the exact right folks for me. I can talk with them as a leadership expert and help them maneuver between the challenges we have been making our way through. Whether it is the social injustice and reform we are fighting through in society or the pandemic. Those organizations that are looking to build strong teams in that environment are the right ones for me.

I’m going to give you a challenge. This is a common scenario that I hear and probably people reading this could be experiencing this same thing. We are taught in a lot of the leadership courses and experts about five generations of people in the workforce. They all came from different backgrounds and experiences. You have more women, minorities and diversity. Everything is diverse but with that comes a lot more unknowns. How do you handle working with a 50-year-old versus a 40-year-old versus a 30-year-old versus a 20-year-old? Sometimes we are taught, “You have to know everything about each one of them to be able to handle their different issues.”

It almost feels like you are babying them. You got to baby your team to get them to do anything and it doesn’t seem like it works very well. I was met in the parking lot by a guy that said, “I got to talk to you. I tried that route. I watched it happen.” It has backfired a little bit on him. He is almost feeling like he wants to go the opposite route where it’s like, “I don’t want any babies on my team. I don’t want to have to deal with all your crap. I don’t want to know all the stuff going on in your life. I want you to come and do what we need to have done.” What is your perspective on that?

I am not a big fan of handholding and spoon-feeding. However, I realize that there is a time to hold hands and bring that spoon to someone else’s lips. When an organization has a standard that everyone is clear on, “They are the bedrock foundations of our company, this and this. We shall do our level best at all of these things and that is who we are.” I am not necessarily seeking to over diversify, force or ensure that we have this smattering of people throughout the organization. What we do have is a standard that the organization is going to work towards as a whole.Especially at the head, when you’re doing things in goodness , in order and character, they will trust to know that no matter what the face of your organization is, they will know that the standard is maintained. Knowing every single thing about a person depending on the size of the organization is certainly challenging. Expressing a level of care beyond just the cursory, “How was the weekend? How are the kids?” Knowing the kids’ names and things like that. When you are operating with sincerity, people realize that it is true. That is when that trust goes beyond the formality of the organization.

It’s not necessarily an overabundance of babysitting, handholding and spoon-feeding. It is a true expression of the company’s mission, vision, guiding principles and the standard at which we are going to work within the organization. That is what is going to draw people in and it’s going to draw and build that loyalty as well. I’m somewhat disappointed when some leadership experts say the same thing you are talking about. You have to know every person’s intimate details and be drawn into those things. We need to let people know what our standards are, adhere to those standards, do our best and then keep it pushing.

The part about setting the standard, living the standard and being the standard, this is the way we do things is so valuable because that oversees or overshadows everything else. If you meet the standard and you want to be part of this standard, you are in. If you don’t want to be part of this standard, that is okay too.

There is another opportunity for employment in other places.

What I noticed with the one that I was talking about is they have some high standards but I’m not sure the leader lives the standards visibly.

That is the thing too. The culture comes from the highest level of leadership. The climate comes from that frontline supervisor. The highest levels in leadership need to ensure that those frontline leaders understand and know that they are not talking about it but they are walking and talking about it. Those frontline leaders are the ones who can convey to the rest of the workforce, “I know for sure that the leadership is doing these things even though you may not see them,” because what happens is you build some synergy in the relationships. If the leader at the highest levels of leadership is not doing it then the culture is going to be a little shaky.

BYW S4 15 | Finding A Better Way
Finding A Better Way: Trust goes beyond the formality of the organization. It’s not necessarily an overabundance of babysitting, handholding, and spoon-feeding, but it’s what’s going to draw people in and build their loyalty.

 

If people are reading that want to have you speak, work with their teams and companies or mentor them, what would be the best way for them to get in touch with you?

My website is www.Kemp-Solutions.com. I’m on all social media platforms @RaymondDKemp. On LinkedIn is Raymond D. Kemp Sr. I’m available.

Thank you so much for being here. I’m sorry to put you on the spot like that.

I like it.

I figured you probably would. That was a better way that you came up with. Thank you so much for spending the time with us. I look forward to working and staying in touch with you as we go on our journeys. What is the best piece of advice you have ever been given or gotten?

The best advice that was ever given and I continue to give to others come in the form of ten two-letter words that make you a better man, woman and leader. Those words are, “If it is to be, it is up to me.” It is a bit of a mantra that I live by. I’m not looking for a handout. I’m looking to make my own way. I’m looking to help other people do the same. I was told that some number of years ago as I was fighting my way through some challenges in advancement in the Navy. It had worked out in my favor. Everyone could use those ten two-letter words.

We have all heard it but living it is something different. How were you able to live that?

The Navy determines your professional capabilities in your written exam and the school system that I went through didn’t necessarily prepare me for multiple-choice tests, certainly not worded in the way that I was given. I realized that the rote memory techniques that I had been taught weren’t necessarily the best ones for me. I had to shift into using flashcards and other diverse means of preparation. When I realized there is not just one way to do things, there are many different ways. I realized, “I’ve got to make sure I do my due diligence and do my best when it comes down to everything I put my hands to if I want to be successful.” That was it. Despite what anyone else said or the obstacles in front of me, it was about effort. It was persistence over resistance.

I have another question I wasn’t probably supposed to ask but it popped in my head and I want to ask you. You didn’t have it easy. You weren’t given everything that you got. You had challenges to overcome. You had people that didn’t treat you nicely. You had a lot of stuff that maybe wasn’t right. How did that shape you? Did it shape you? It didn’t destroy you. In this world, everybody is offended by everything. You try to take every offensive thing out of life to have a perfect upbringing. I wonder if that will end up being a good thing.

I did not grow up in an environment where everybody got a T-shirt and trophy. I grew up in an environment where you had to earn what you got. Even when it was systematically unfair that there were still some good things that came out of that. The master chief I talked to you about when I first joined the Navy was throwing dirt on top of me. He had no idea I was a seed. I would grow into the tree that I became and bear fruit. I’ll never taste some of that fruit but still bear fruit so that other harvests could grow. I do believe that there is something wrong when we try to avoid offending or create some environment where people don’t have to come against controversy and friction.

I believe that the friction that I went through was what I needed to grow and be built into who I became. It’s the same as I believe that it is okay for there to be some measure of friction and disagreeance. There is great value when we can come together and reason with one another. There shouldn’t just be abuse as we have seen throughout American history and beyond. It didn’t destroy me. When I looked back over the challenges that I overcame, they created me into who I am.

Thank you.

It’s time for our Guess The Why segment and for this segment, I want to use somebody that a lot of people know, especially if you’re into sports and you followed Tom Brady and the New England Patriots. I want to know. What do you think is the why of Coach Bill Belichick? He is always in the hoodie. He is known as the guru in football. He has won the most championships of anybody. He did have Tom Brady on his team. There is the debate of is it because of Tom or Bill? He is known as a great mind in the football world.

What do you think his why is? I think his why is to make sense. He is able to make sense out of complex and challenging things and help people get unstuck, move forward, be able to zig and zag and make adjustments on the fly easily. That was what made him into a great coach. What do you think? If there is an area for comments, let us know what you think. Thank you for reading. If you have not yet discovered your why, you can do so at WHYInstitute.com. You can use the code PODCAST 50 and get it for half off. If you love the show, please don’t forget to subscribe below. Leave us a review and rating on whatever platform you are using. Thank you so much for reading.

Important Links:

About Raymond Kemp

BYW S4 15 | Finding A Better WayRaymond Kemp is a highly experienced senior executive in leadership and Human Resources. He has over 10 years of experience at the highest levels of the US Navy. As the fleet master chief of Europe and Africa, In his final duty assignment Raymond directed and influenced over 56,000 service members, civilians, contractors and family members across the European and African continents.

He revolutionized naval leadership education by creating the seminal document “Laying the Keel” with an emphasis on character and professional competency. More than 30,000 senior enlisted trainees were impacted by this document.

Widely recognized for his exceptional leadership skills, fleet master Chief Kemp has received honors from the office of the president of the United States and the department of the Navy. He was most recently appointed by Joe Biden to the American Battle Monuments Commission.

Categories
Podcast

Breaking Barriers Through Language: The WHY Of Make Sense With Gregory V. Diehl

BYW S4 14 | Breaking Barriers

Teaching or learning a language is one way of breaking barriers between people. Gregory V. Diehl is a thinker, author, and mentor whose travels and strong WHY of Make Sense have taken him across the world. Dr. Gary Sanchez catches up with Gregory as they talk about one of his new works: helping Armenians learn the English language and training teachers to teach more effectively. We hear about Gregory’s roots, how he discovered his WHY, and his experiences as a digital nomad. Stay tuned and be inspired by Gregory as we explore his works and his purpose.

Watch the episode here:

 

Listen to the podcast here:

Breaking Barriers Through Language: The WHY Of Make Sense With Gregory V. Diehl

We go beyond talking about your why, helping you discover and then live your why. If you are a regular reader, you know that every episode we talk about 1 of the 9 why’s, and then we bring on somebody with that why, so you can see how their why has played out in their life. In this episode, we are going to be talking about the why of make sense.

If this is your why that you are driven to solve problems and resolve challenging or complex situations, you have an uncanny ability to take in lots of data and information. You tend to observe situations and circumstances around you, and then sort through them quickly to create solutions that are sensible and easy to implement.

Often you are viewed as an expert because of your unique ability to solve problems quickly. You also have the gift of articulating solutions and summarizing them clearly in understandable language. You believe that many people are stuck, and if they could make sense out of their situation, they could develop simple solutions and move forward. In essence, you help people get unstuck and move progress forward.

I’ve got a great guest for you. His name is Gregory Diehl, a personal development mentor whose ideals include self-inquiry, challenge, and analysis for the purpose of helping people to discover who they are. He writes to assist others in undoing faulty narratives about who they are and how life works so that they may begin to make more meaningful choices and resolve their deepest burdens. Diehl spent many years studying cultures around the world. He now lives a quiet life in a rural village in Armenia with his cats, book and music. Gregory, welcome to the show.

First, thanks for having me. Second, that long description you gave of the person who has made sense as their why describes me probably better than anyone has ever described to me before in my life. In fact, that’s a major part of the reason why I write books. From a very young age, I realized I had this uncanny ability to figure out how things work. More importantly than that, articulate those things for other people.

That manifested in many ways in my life. Getting involved in various education-related professions eventually got me into sales, too. I realized a lot of selling was explaining to people how something worked and why they needed it. It mostly takes the form of my writing. Most of the stuff I write can be described as that, me trying to explain some complex and important topics for people to make sense out of it.

Let’s go back then. Take us through, Gregory. I know you are in Armenia now, which we will get to at some point. Where were you born? What were you like in high school? Tell us a little bit about you.

I was born in San Diego, California, and spent the first eighteen years of my life there. I became obsessed with trying to make sense out of the world. I did that primarily by traveling for the next ten years or so. I wanted to see as many different parts of the world as I could because I was curious about how this place worked. I didn’t accept the explanations and the stories given to me by common sources of knowledge about how the world worked.

I did that for a while and felt like I was starting to make sense out of the world. I decided I needed to spend more time focusing on myself. A few years ago, I came to Armenia. My grandmother was from Armenia. I’m partially descended from here. I was able to get citizenship by descent. I bought an old house in disrepair in a village. Since then, I have been fixing it up and building a life for myself here in that time. It was right before Coronavirus happened, which made travel much more difficult anyway. It was a good time for me to stop traveling.

What happened to you after high school? What are the different places you traveled to? How did you pick them?

I have been to about 56 countries now. The first place I went to was Costa Rica, and that was mostly a convenient thing. It was an easy place for a young California to go hang out for a while with no responsibilities and worries, little money. After that, I wanted to see much more difficult and challenging places. I had to learn how to support myself financially sometimes by taking English teaching jobs locally or learning how to work online and start my own entrepreneurial endeavors, which is a big part of my life now.

BYW S4 14 | Breaking Barriers
Breaking Barriers: The greatest insights and benefits of human intelligence and consciousness come when people are free to pursue what they are interested in and passionate about.

 

It was mostly about saying what place will challenge me the most to make me the most uncomfortable because how its culture works, politics, laws, and the way they do things is totally different than what I’m expecting. To date, I would say the worst place I have ever been in is China. They have a lot of very strange totalitarian and authoritarian policies that hurt the soul of someone like me who values freedom, passion and individuality.

Iraq was another difficult one. There had been a lot of great places, too. Other places that people love to go on vacations like Costa Rica, Bali or something. A place like Armenia is interesting. Not just because they have the family connection here but it’s the place that seems full of talented and skilled people who don’t have a sense of direction for their country or themselves. It’s very strange.

I have coined a term for it, “Armenian self-defeatism syndrome.” It’s one thing if you don’t have the resources or education, which a lot of developing countries don’t. In Armenia, I feel like they mostly have those things. They lack this self-esteem or self-confidence, which is very strange. It’s like the opposite of the American way of life, which is almost that we are too confident. We believe too much in ourselves and are quite pompous to a degree about those things. I don’t know. It’s an interesting experiment for me to try to be here and see if I can positively influence the country in a certain direction.

Here’s what’s going through my mind now. I’m sure a lot of the people that are reading this are thinking the same thing. Take us back to that moment in time where you said to yourself, “I’m not going to do traditional. I’m not going to follow the path everybody else from San Diego where my class is following. I’m going to go off and travel for the rest of my life.” What was that conversation? What was going on? How did you come to that conclusion?

At any age, but especially when you are young, it’s almost impossible to know that the choice you are making is the right choice if you are trying to pick a life direction. This is why it never made sense to me to commit myself to something like a four-year Bachelor’s degree at college, even though I was quite smart and enjoyed learning. I did well in school when I tried it and cared enough to try.

That idea never inherently made sense to me, and no adult proposing that idea ever explained it in a very convincing way. It was always a matter of, “This is what people do.” What are you going to do if you don’t do this? I don’t know but I bet there’s some other option out there that I could figure one out and I did. It was like most of the people my age seemed like made that choice out of a fear of not knowing what else to do. There are some exceptions. I knew a few people who went to school because they were genuinely passionate about studying things like Theoretical Physics. Good on it that they figured out that’s what they wanted to do.

At least 90% of the people when you are eighteen years old and finished high school has no idea what you want to do. I knew I didn’t want to do that. Pretty much anything else would be a superior option to something I knew I didn’t want to do because at least something else would be learning something new about myself.

How did you know you didn’t want to do that?

I saw nothing of myself in that path. There was no part of me that felt like my values and personality would be serviced or fulfilled in any way by going to a university for the purposes of getting a degree or a general education. Perhaps it would have been different if I had been one of those guys who knew for sure, “This is the subject I want to study. I want to be a spinal surgeon, and this is the path I have to take to do that.” That wasn’t me. I don’t think that’s most people. It didn’t make sense to me that it was what I should be doing with my life at that time.

In your senior year in high school, what were you like? How would you describe yourself?

In my senior year of high school, I turned eighteen very early into the year. I moved into a van on my eighteenth birthday, an old Ford Econoline. It sounds like I’m making this up but this happened. I spent a year living in a van before I started traveling and became known around the school as that guy who lived in a van and didn’t wear shoes to school.

When you're young, it's almost impossible to know that the choice you're making is the right choice. Click To Tweet

We are getting a clearer picture of what you were like. You are not in some prep school, prepped out, everybody is going to college, and you decided, “I’m not going to.” You were the guy living in the van.

I still did well in school when I cared enough to because I was a smart guy and knew how to take tests well. It was totally about freedom for me. I didn’t see any other way at that time to get freedom from my parents, the rules of how young men were supposed to live and function. If I had been less reckless, perhaps I would have saved up money to rent an apartment or move out on my own. I had a van. I liked the van and the freedom to sleep anywhere and have all my possessions with me at any time. That’s what I did because it made sense to me. The Occam’s razor solution was the easiest possible way to gain independence and freedom.

Why were independence and freedom so important to you?

I don’t like other people telling me what to do and telling other people what to do either, which I mentioned in China before. It was like the antithesis of me because China is where everybody is told what to do all the time to the point that they don’t even realize they are being told what to do because it’s normal for them. The greatest insights and benefits of human intelligence and consciousness come when people are free to pursue what they are interested in and passionate about in whatever way that happens to show up for them, free to form their own lifestyles, beyond whatever arbitrary norms, the culture they live in.

It tells them they should be doing like, “Why not live in a van? Why, because most people don’t do it, and you don’t have running water and a toilet with you at all times?” You will find solutions to those things. That’s a silly example. Obviously, I don’t live in a van anymore. I wouldn’t want to do that anymore. At least not long-term but it’s an example of how an independently minded person can find alternative solutions to lifestyle problems. If you don’t want to live with your parents, you don’t have a place of your own, why not sleep in a car? What’s stopping you? Only you or maybe it’s illegal where you are from. I don’t know.

You became very committed to this idea of freedom.

Yes. Obviously, that was heightened more by my obsession with independent travel after the van. I was like, “What else can I do now to live life the way I want to?” I will move to a Latin American country where I don’t speak the language, nobody knows me, and I don’t need much money to survive.

What was that influence on you that helped you to think this way? You don’t wake up and say, “I’m going to be free for anything I want to do, whenever I want to do it, and how I want to do it.” What influenced you to think like that?

It’s going to sound crazy but there never was a person or a movie I watched or a book I read that put this idea in my head. Obviously, I had read books, watched movies, and met people who influenced me in various ways but it has always been me assessing what is possible and how is that different than what people typically do. There has always been a very clear distinction between those two concepts for me. My parents, the school, society say, “Do this.”

Why is everyone saying do that? Is that how reality works? There are rules to reality. Certainly, we tend to call them things like the Laws of Physics. There are limitations to what we can do but then there are other rules that people make up and insist on. This is also true in the same way like gravity and thermodynamics are true. Those are true in an absolute way that none of us can change. All these other things are stuff people started doing and insisted was the right way to do things.

Some of them do make sense. Some of them are good ideas generally. A lot of them don’t, and they are quite arbitrary. That’s the thing that gets reinforced by travel because you see that, in this country, they do things this way. Everybody is sure that this is the correct way to do them. You step over the border in another country and they are doing things this way. They are all sure that this is the correct way to do them.

BYW S4 14 | Breaking Barriers
Breaking Barriers: Your life is going to have challenges and trials, which you’re going to spend your whole life chasing after because it’s the only thing you’re going to find meaningful.

 

What’s great about talking with you is you had the courage to follow up on what you thought where most of us didn’t. We may have thought what you thought but weren’t willing to live our life that way. We weren’t willing to make that a choice for us full-time like you were.

It helps that I started so young. Perhaps if I had waited a few years longer and gotten entrenched in some job, school or something, it would have been harder. As people get older, they invest their lives into a certain mode of being, which often includes financially and professionally but not just that. It becomes harder to accept the risk of dismantling that, losing that if they make major systemic changes to their lives.

It is part of why I had to learn how to do things like making money online in an independent way because that allowed me to live still wherever I wanted. Even though I have been here a few years, I could get a plane to the other side of the world and mostly keep working. I’m making money and continuing my professional life roughly the same way I do here because all it takes is an internet connection.

You started in Costa Rica, and then you went from country to country. How did you determine what you were going to do, how were you going to do it, and all the rest? How did you figure that out? Was it, “Whatever I feel like what I’m going to go do?”

That’s mostly curiosity. That’s what impels us to do most new things. We want to see what will happen. Anytime we are not trying to do something new, we are trying to repeat something we already know, which is not bad. We want a certain amount of familiarity in your life. Things that you know and enjoy but I was curious about myself and the world.

I know how things work in Latin America. How do they work in Asia? I don’t know. Let’s find out. What other things will I learn about myself by doing this? What new parts of my personality will I see? I didn’t realize it was possible for me to hate a place as much as I hate this place. Let’s go find a place that I love more than I knew was possible for me to do so.

Your favorite place was what? Your least favorite place was what?

China is absolutely my least favorite. That’s no contest there. Favorite is hard to decide because any place can be interesting for a few weeks or even a few months. They are not necessarily the places you would want to live, invest in yourself long-term, build a social network and be part of the community. Obviously, I’m here in Armenia.

I have been here longer than any other place that I have been in a very long time. There must be something I like about this place but is it perfect? Do I still miss the tropics sometimes, coconuts, papayas, and other little lifestyle benefits that come from other parts of the world or friendlier places where people treat me a certain way? Yes, maybe to a degree.

It forces you to confront what is most important to me and my recurring experience of reality, as opposed to, “I love hanging out on the beach for a weekend or the way people treat me in this culture or the mountains in this country.” Do you need to see those things every day? Are you glad that you had the experience once, twice or maybe once a year even, who knows?

It sounds like a lot of alone time in your travels.

Curiosity is what impels us to do most new things. Click To Tweet

Yes and no. For a lot of it, I was certainly traveling alone and felt alienated from many of the cultures I went to. Being an English speaker is useful because it was English in about every country in this world so far that I have found. Several years into my travels, I eventually realized that there was something called a digital nomad, which was other people doing the same thing I was doing in a different way, working from a laptop and hanging out in Bali, Thailand or whatever. At a certain point, it became easier to join communities of perpetual travelers and tourists.

That changed my perspective a lot because for the first five years, at least, I was like, “This is me versus the world. I’m not doing my own thing that nobody understands. There are other people doing this. It’s a similar thing, not quite the same thing I’m doing.” It’s another way your mind opens where you think you are doing one thing. You think these are your options, and then you realize is that there’s this whole other world you haven’t explored yet. I’m always looking for more and discovering new options for myself, even here in Armenia, getting involved in new projects, meeting new people. My perspective is constantly changing.

What’s the most valuable thing you’ve learned or a lesson you gained from your time as a digital nomad?

Much of what I have learned from travel is the variety of experiences that come from living this life could be more broadly said to apply to all of life. What we call wisdom is typically being able to derive the principle from a set of experiences and generalize it to all things. You experienced one thing one way, and you realize, “This is true for other kinds of experiences, too.” We call that wisdom typically. The most important thing I have learned from having a wide variety of experiences is that you need to find out what is most important to you out of all possible types of experiences you could have. Anything could be stimulating, entertaining, exciting when it’s new, or even the first few times you do it.

Eventually, you realize this is not sustainably fulfilling to me. There’s something else I want to do, and this isn’t it. What is the thing I should be doing every day of my life that I will continue to find meaningful and get better at? When you get good at any given scalar domain of knowledge, the first 99% you learn it, and you think you understand it.

There’s that remaining 1% that gets increasingly more refined the more you learn about it. I’m a musician. I like playing the piano. There’s one behind me and a few other instruments like the guitar. I’m pretty good at them. I’m probably better than 9 out of 10 people who play them. I watched people who dedicate their lives to these things.

Through things, I can’t even understand like, “How are they playing that many notes so fast and memorizing all these complex pieces?” That’s not my passion. That’s not the thing I need to be doing every day of my life but for those people, it is. There are other things that I do every single day of my life that other people would say, “How do you do this every day? How are you so obsessed with this? How do you reach the levels of refinement on that?”

It’s genuinely fulfilling to me. I would feel like there’s something wrong with me if I weren’t doing it. If you could find out what that thing is, preferably as soon as possible, you can start incorporating that into your life as much as possible. That’s a pretty good way to guarantee some level of happiness, fulfillment, and if you are entrepreneurial, professional success in life, too.

What was that thing that you figured out was most important to you?

It’s what I started talking about. I like explaining how things work because I am the guy who needs to make sense out of things. More than that, I’m the guy who sees problems in everything around me. It’s quite infuriating. In fact, one of the only ways I manage the frustration and the pain that comes from seeing inefficiencies, misconceptions, mistakes in the way people do things all around me is that I try to help fix those things and explain to people, “Here’s a better way to do that.”

First, I started teaching English here for free at the community center in town because I saw the level of English education here. It was atrocious. I’m not particularly passionate about teaching English. I’m passionate about the English language and communication. That’s why I’m a writer but I saw a problem that I was in a unique position to fix. These people have horrible options for learning English, a skill that will help them throughout life, especially if they want to work internationally and travel.

BYW S4 14 | Breaking Barriers
Breaking Barriers: We’re all in a position to improve the way things are done to create something that didn’t exist before to change the world for the better and perhaps make money at the same time. Why not? That’s what the purpose of entrepreneurship is.

 

That’s going to be much better to speak English than Armenian because no other country speaks Armenian, and every country speaks English to some degree. I felt like I needed to do something to help because I could. I see the problem and the solution, and frankly, no one else is going to do this if I don’t do it. Now that’s turned into I’m teaching other people how to teach English.

I have scaled up to the next level because there was enough of want for this and a need for this solution that, “I can’t teach everyone in the country how to speak English. I’m going to teach other people how to be better English teachers.” What will happen after that? I don’t know. It’s an example of what I need to do for my life to be tolerable or meaningful. I have to solve the problems that I see.

Interestingly, you say it that way because that’s what we believe. When you are able to live your why, you will have passion for what you do. People say, “I’ve got to find my passion.” If what you do is in line with why you do what you do, you will have passion for what you do. Passion is that fuel that gives you the energy to keep pursuing your dreams. In your case, if your why is to make sense out of complex and challenging things, and then you get to do that every day like you said, how much better does it get than that?

I don’t know what other life there is for someone like me. Frankly, I can’t picture there isn’t anything else. I don’t know what that would be.

If you are able to help the people that you are helping discover their why and live their why, they will have that same passion. That’s what’s fueled me exactly what you are talking about right there. If you speak to them in your language of making sense out of things, they may or may not get it but if you are able to speak to them in the language they speak, the same thing. You speak English, they speak Armenian. You don’t speak it.

How good is your communication with them? If you can speak to them in Armenian, we are having a real conversation, even though you are good at English. If you can figure out what their why is and speak to them and their language, the way they want to hear it, it’s so much more effective than speaking in the way you want to say it.

On that note, it has been very hard for me to find people I could look up to as mentors or advice-givers. That’s part of the reason why I was so obsessed with learning things myself, experimenting, seeing the world myself because I didn’t trust what other people had to say about almost anything. Part of that is because they don’t speak my language.

They can’t explain things in a way that will make sense to me or I don’t believe what they are saying for whatever reason. I don’t trust their authority with rare exceptions. There have been some truly great figures in my life but it has always been hard for me to accept what other people tell me is true or is a good idea. I have realized this because not many people speak the same language I do.

I try to embody as much of that language as I can in my writing or teaching. Not to tell everyone you should speak the language I do because it’s the best language. Rather provide an option for other people who do speak that language and think that no one else does like I once did. There will be some people who read one of my books or hear what I have to say and say, “Finally, this guy is saying the thing I have been waiting my whole life for someone to say, “I didn’t know people were saying these things.”

We have a lot of coaches that we have trained in how to utilize the why and the Why OS. This one exercise I did, I didn’t know how it was going to turn out. What I did was I separated all of the coaches into rooms with people that had the same why. That would be putting you in a room with people that all have the why of makes sense.

When we brought everybody back together and said, “What was that like for you?” They were like, “I cannot tell you how wonderful it was to speak to somebody who understood me, somebody who I could connect with right away.” That’s what you are talking about. Let’s talk about your book. In the marketing of your book, if you say something along the lines of, “This book is meant for people that are trying to make sense of these complex things.” If that’s what you are trying to do, you are going to like this.

What we call wisdom is just being able to derive the principle from a set of experiences and generalize it to all things. Click To Tweet

It’s interesting because I have written a few of my own books. I’m working on my fifth now. I have helped a lot of other people produce and publish their books, too. There are always several stages it goes through like any product you develop. There’s a beta rating process for people to read the rough draft and say, “I don’t understand this part. What are you talking about? I like this part.” You figure out, “We have to write a book description. How are we going to describe to people what this book is about? We have to pick a title and a subtitle that speaks to that point.”

At least with all of my books, there have always been some people who love them and say things like, “You need to tone this down. Their language use here is way too esoteric. You need to make it more friendly to general audiences.” Those people don’t understand that’s the opposite of what I’m trying to do. I am not trying to force it to be a specific way to be contrary. I’m trying to embody a particular voice in a particular way of thinking about things that are not very well-represented already.

Everything from the title to the book description to the actual content of the book, I want people to look at the book and the cover. Read the title, the description and say, “I’m going to learn things in this book that no other book is going to teach me. This book is made for someone like me.” I have gotten better at that because that is a lot of the responses I get.

When I have interactions with readers, they say, “I read your whole book and learned so many things that nobody else talks about.” I’m like, “I’m glad that the title intrigued you enough that you realized this is the book you should be reading.” Maybe for other readers, they read it and say, “Why would I read a book called that? What’s that got to do with me?” Probably nothing. Don’t read it. It’s fine. Go read another book.

What’s your latest book?

My latest book is either going to intrigue you or has no idea what it’s about, The Heroic and Exceptional Minority: A Guide to Mythological Self-Awareness and Growth. What does that mean?

My mind would go right to the person from Mexico who’s come over to the US, a hero to his people, and turns out to be an amazing minority. That’s where I would have gotten it.

It’s one connotation of the word minority, cultural and racial minority. The word exceptional speaks an exception to the rule literally. Someone who is an outlier, different in some important way, such that you cannot categorize them the same as whatever the norm happens to be. Heroism obviously has a lot of different connotations and interpretations of what does it mean to be heroic. Does it mean saving a cat from a tree? Does it mean self-sacrifice?

I’m very clear and specific in how I define and use these terms in the book. The hero is somebody who goes to extreme lengths to embody their values, which often means at the cost of great personal expense, which might even be dying for what you believe in. It usually means somebody who struggles to accomplish what is important to them that is surreal to them. Exceptional, meaning that they are different somehow than the norm. It might mean that they are smarter, have some ability or perspective that not very many people have.

It might be that they see things differently, and it’s hard for them to communicate their perspective on things to other people. This book is for those kinds of people who are outliers, who are different but feel impelled by what I define as his heroic values to do something meaningful with what makes them exceptional. Those will be different for each person but these principles will be the same for all of them. The purpose of the book, it’s broken up into 36 short chapters, is to discuss different aspects of the life of this person and particularly things you are probably going to struggle with if you are this person, and what to do about that.

What prompted you to write that book?

BYW S4 14 | Breaking Barriers
The Heroic and Exceptional Minority: A Guide to Mythological Self-Awareness and Growth
– https://www.amazon.com/Heroic-Exceptional-Minority-Mythological-Self-Awareness-ebook/dp/B09GD25JBV

I didn’t have many people to say, “Gregory, here’s the deal. You are this person. Your life is going to have these kinds of challenges and trials. These are the things you are going to spend your whole life chasing after because it’s the only thing you are going to find meaningful.” Nobody ever said anything remotely like that to me.

I had to figure that out myself slowly or I give several examples in the book of watching mythological-themed movies or reading books that have certain moral mythological lessons to them, whether that’s something popular and well known. Star Wars has heroic mythological stories of resisting the dark side, staying true to yourself, and rescuing your father from his darkness.

In the Lion King, Simba becomes the king he was supposed to be and rejects hedonism to take on responsibility. I pause that those timeless mythological stories often give us guidance that we might not have in our personal lives. If we don’t have an Obi-Wan Kenobi or a Gandalf in our lives to tell us, “Frodo, this is the journey you are on. Luke, you have to learn to use the force,” which I think frankly, very few of us do.

We still have this architectural idea of what these people are supposed to be and the guidance they are supposed to give us. We can still piece together these universal timeless trues on our own if we are willing to explore and experiment and deal with the costs of doing all those things. This book is meant to summarize all that and say to them, “You are not crazy. If you respond to what is in this book, I’m almost certain that you are this person, so maybe take these things into consideration.”

You discovered your why but there’s also your Why OS. It’s called your Why Operating System, which is your why you do what you do, how you bring that to life, and ultimately what people can count on from you. Based on our conversation, and I bet a lot of the readers would pick this up, your why, which we already know is to make sense out of the complex and challenging. You are a great problem solver. You see things that are keeping people stuck and helping them solve them.

How you go about doing that is by challenging the status quo, thinking differently, thinking outside the box, imagining stuff the rest of us have never even seen. Ultimately, what you bring is a better way to move forward, get results, and live the life that you want. Your why would make sense. Your how would be challenging the status quo, and your what would be finding a better way.

You have described entrepreneurship in a nutshell, which I have also mentioned a few times here. This book isn’t specifically about entrepreneurship but everything described here could be called entrepreneurial principles, which is the subject of my next book. The working title is Everyone is An Entrepreneur, which is about realizing that we are all in a position to improve the way things are done and create something that didn’t exist before to change the world for the better and perhaps make money at the same time. Why not? That’s what the purpose of entrepreneurship, to receive profit for improving the way things are done or creating something that didn’t exist before, which is a very heroic approach to life, at least according to the way I’m using the term heroic.

Last question for you, what’s the best piece of advice you have ever received?

I haven’t received a lot of good advice in my life, unfortunately. The best piece of advice I should have received is if there had been somebody to say this in my language, maybe there were people who tried to say it in ways that I wasn’t ready to hear that’s quite possible. There’s somebody who could have said it in the way that I would have responded to, it would have been, “Gregory, you are not crazy. You are pretty bright and good at figuring things out but you are going to make a lot of mistakes in the process of figuring things out.”

Some of those mistakes are going to have long-term consequences that you might even think at the time you can never recover from but you should at least proceed with the self-confidence that there is a meaning to your madness. You are not just chaotically searching and exploring for no purpose. You are discovering something about yourself that is meaningful and important.

No one can tell you exactly what that’s going to end up being but know that you are not crazy. There is something to this. You have to figure out what that something is yourself. That conversation probably would have changed my life and saved me several years of mistakes. Maybe I would have ignored it completely, interested in everything the same anyway. That’s also possible.

We can still piece together these universal, timeless truths on our own if we're willing to explore, experiment, and deal with the costs of doing all those things. Click To Tweet

If there are people that are reading that want to connect with you, buy your book, and want to learn more about what you are doing, what’s the best way for them to get in touch with you?

The book is available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or any major online retailer. The title is The Heroic and Exceptional Minority. If you want to contact me, I’m on Facebook or go to my website, GregoryDiehl.net.

Gregory, thank you so much for being here with us. I have enjoyed our conversation. You have gotten me to see things differently. Now that I know what the title of your book is about, it makes a lot more sense to me. I’m excited to check it out. Thank you so much for being on the show.

Thanks for having me.

It’s time for our new segment, which was Guess the Why. Hopefully, you have seen the hit TV series called Yellowstone. I want to know what do you think John Dutton’s why is. John Dutton is the patriarch of the Yellowstone Ranch. There are many things that happened in that series. My wife and I have been watching that. If you have been watching it, what do you think John Dutton’s why is?

He’s the guy who protects the family, takes care of people that he has great relationships with, and got lots of different relationships. I believe that John Dutton’s why is trust, creating relationships based upon trust. If you are on his side, if you have that brand because he brands some of the people that work with him, there’s nothing he won’t do for you.

He will trust you implicitly unless you break it. If you break his trust, you are gone. You are out. I believe that John Dutton’s why is to create relationships based upon trust. What do you think? What’s your take on John Dutton’s why? I want to thank you so much for reading. If you have not yet discovered your WHY, go to WhyInstitute.com and use the code PODCAST50. You can discover your why for free. If you love the show, please don’t forget to subscribe and leave us a review on whatever platform you are on. I look forward to having you next episode. Thank you.

Important Links:

About Gregory V. Diehl

BYW S4 14 | Breaking BarriersGregory V. Diehl is a personal development mentor whose ideals include self-inquiry, challenge, and analysis for the purpose of helping people to discover who they are. He writes to assist others in undoing faulty narratives about who they are and how life works so that they may begin to make more meaningful choices and resolve their deepest burdens. Diehl spent many years studying cultures around the world. He now lives a quiet life in a rural village in Armenia with his cats, books, and music.

Categories
Podcast

Finding A Better Way To Ignite Lives With JB Owen

BYW S4 13 | Ignite Lives

When you share your transformational story, you create impact and ignite lives. JB Owen, the founder and CEO at Ignite You, is passionate about working with people who have a higher mission and purpose. JB is a fearless female leader and a believer in the power of empowerment. Join in the conversation and witness how JB’s WHY played a huge impact in forming her to be a world-class speaker, 17-time bestselling author, and powerful business owner. She’s helped over 700 authors become international best-sellers. Don’t miss out on this igniting episode!

Watch the episode here:

Listen to the podcast here:

Finding A Better Way To Ignite Lives With JB Owen

If you are a regular audience, you know that every week, we talk about 1 of the 9 whys, and then we bring on somebody with that why so you can see how their why has played out in their life. In this episode, we are going to be talking about the why of Better Way. If this is your why, then you are the ultimate innovator, and you are constantly seeking better ways to do everything. You find yourself wanting to improve virtually anything by finding a way to make it better.

You also desire to share your improvement with the world. You constantly ask yourself questions like, “What if we tried this differently? What if we did this another way? How can we make this better?” You contribute to the world with better processes and systems while operating under the motto, “I’m often pleased but never satisfied.” You are excellent at associating, which means that you are adept at taking ideas or systems from one industry or discipline and applying them to another, always with the ultimate goal of improving something.

In this episode, I’ve got a great guest for you. Her name is JB Owen. She is a fearless female leader and a believer in the power of empowerment. Her true focus is on helping others, which is why she started Ignite Publishing, the leader in empowerment publishing, in 2018. She’s a world-class speaker, a seventeen-time best-selling author, and a powerful business owner. She has published over 700 authors, turning them into international bestsellers. She combines purpose, passion, and possibility in everything she does. She is truly inspirational, motivational, transformational in the way she teaches and empowers others. JB, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much. What a beautiful intro. Thank you for having me.

Tell us a little bit about where you live.

I like to say my furniture is in Canada. I have been traveling for years. I am now on the West side of Canada, and we are experiencing a tiny little bit of snow. We are pretty lucky that it’s the end of November 2021, and we’ve only got a bit of snow. I am enjoying the Rocky Mountains of Alberta, Canada.

Tell us how did you get to where you are now. Where did you grow up? What were you like in high school? Where did you go to school, and how did you get into publishing?

I will quickly tell you the story. I grew up in a small town of 70,000 people. It’s not that small but it felt small to me. I was always an outcast. I was dressing in ways that didn’t fit into the town, doing things, challenging the status quo, planning things, and making all kinds of stuff happen. The town did not understand me at all, so eleven days after I graduated, I moved to Vancouver. I started working in the film and fashion business. I started my own company right out of college, and I have been in film and fashion ever since.

Interestingly enough, when I had my first child, I started a great clothing company. I did that for quite a few years and then had that great self-implosion that many of us have when we entrepreneur ourselves right out of a marriage and our health, so it took a couple of years to ground myself and focus. I started writing and telling stories. I had always been making products and developing things, so it was a natural progression for me to get into publishing, working with private clients, and now, it has grown into this incredible business of Ignite.

Always figure out how you can fix the process, tweak it, and make it better. Click To Tweet

Let’s go back a little bit. In high school, you were that kid that was a little bit different. For those of you that are reading and cannot see us, JB has platinum-colored hair. Do you change your hair color quite often or not?

I have always been platinum since I was seventeen. I say some people are born blonde, and some are born to be blonde. I have been dying my hair platinum since I was seventeen. I always had big jewelry, big earrings and lipstick. I was loving life, and I have always loved fashion and clothes. When I was a teenager, I had purple and pink hair. I had handcuffs on my boots and leopard pants.

I was way out there, and in a small town in the prairies where everyone is a farmer, it was a shocking thing. In fact, people would phone my parents and say, “I saw your daughter at the mall.” It was shocking to them but I wanted to be in fashion. I wanted to be in the theater and walking the Paris runway. I wanted to be out there doing stuff and so much more than what my small town had to offer.

We had JB discover not only her why but her how and what. Her why is Better Way, and her how is challenge, which explains so much of what we heard. How she does it is by challenging the way things are done and doing things differently, and ultimately, her what is what she brings. It is the right way to get results, the structure and process systems around getting predictable results. When you discovered that, what did that feel like to you?

Your process was phenomenal. It touched my heart. I felt verklempt a little bit because I was like, “It understands me so well if this is exactly who I am.” It was beautiful to read it and see like, “That’s what I do. That’s what I’m good at, and that’s what I love doing.” Sometimes, people chastise you, and they give you a hard time for the way you do things, especially people like me who want to find the better way, who want to find the better way again, who keep going at it, and who are never satisfied. It was so rewarding to read it and be like, “That’s exactly me.”

It’s okay to be you.

I love being me, and it’s taken me a while but I will say that growing up with the name JB, in a small town, wanting to be in fashion, in the movies, and doing things like that was a challenge. Interestingly enough, I worked for fifteen years in the film business, and my job was continuity director. I would be like, “The purse-string was on the left side in this scene. It had to be on the left side of the other scene. The button had to be done up. Everything had to be perfect.” I loved it because I always was seeing how to make it better, how to fix it, and how to tweak it. Your gift often can be your curse but I have always enjoyed having that creative mind to be like, “How do we improve the process? How do we make it better? How do we make it more enjoyable?”

What did you like about fashion and movies? Why was that so intriguing to you?

Probably because I’m a Gemini, so I love that diversity but it is the idea of fantasy, creativity, limitlessness and possibility. I love that. Much of what I teach now is what’s possible, what’s capable, what we can do, and what has not been done before, so television, movies, and designing things were always pushing the limits on what hasn’t been done before.

BYW S4 13 | Ignite Lives
Ignite Lives: Story writing allows you to escape into fantasy.

 

What was the turning point to say, “It’s time for me to move on from this.”

I wanted to have kids, so it was time for me to be a mom. I knew this was going to be my last film. I did my last film with Dwayne Johnson. I had a great experience. I knew I was going to get married that fall and be pregnant by the next year. That’s what better way people do. We plan these things. I had my kids, and within five months of my son, I thought, “Boys get ripped off when it comes to clothing, and there’s nothing out here for UV protection. Also, why isn’t there better rain gear?” Within a very short time, I developed an entire kids’ clothing line. Within four years, I was selling in over 60 countries, 600 stores and had made a million-dollar business because I wanted to find a better way for kids and boys, especially UV protection and all those things. That was the turning point in my film career.

I wonder if having the why of Better Way equates almost to no fear. You should have been scared of that. You were a stay-at-home mom now. What are you doing starting a clothing company?

Going to China and doing business on my own as a platinum blonde woman that is a foot and a half taller than everybody else, they picked me up at the airport with a sign that always said, Mr. Owen. I would laugh because it was so unheard-of women going to Asia to do business. Many years ago, that was not something people did. There was no fear. I haven’t told you this story but my husband and I cycled 6,500 kilometers to the Top of the World Highway in Alaska.

I said to him, “Let’s cycle to the Top of the World Highway. I’m going to tell everybody. I’m going to put it on social media. I’m going to announce it.” He’s like, “What if you fail?” I had to stop and think like, “Fail? There is no fail. If I cycle 10 kilometers, I didn’t fail. I’m going to get as far as I get. That’s never a failure.” It was interesting to me because there is this idea that people are like, “What if you fail? What if it’s not possible? What if you can’t do it?” I feel like I have been put on this planet to show people that it is possible. You can do it. It’s always possible. Maybe, you have to take some U-turns and some course corrections but you are going to get exactly where you are meant to get to.

Where you are meant to get to, is that always where you envisioned it?

It’s not, and that’s the exciting part. When you surrender, let go and say, “I know I’m on this journey, and here’s my destination that I want to get to,” but the process of letting go and understanding that the universe wants more for you than you even know what’s possible, and you let yourself weave through that journey, you end up in the most fascinating places.

When my children were 8 and 11, I took them out of school and traveled for a year. We went to 11 countries in 12 months, and all we did was raise money for charity. We’ve always got on the wrong bus, ended up in the wrong place, and met different people in the times but the thing is what was so fascinating was, we always ended up meeting the right imperfect people, taking the right imperfect detour, and ending up in the right and perfect place.

When we look back on it, it was so beautiful and magical. That has led to my publishing house, where I help people tell those amazing stories of those pivotal moments in their life, where at one point, it could have felt like the worst moment ever. You were down on your knees and knocked upside the head but the truth is, in hindsight, it was the silver lining. It was the golden nugget. It was the path you were meant to take, and by looking at it in hindsight and reassigning meaning to it, you now tell the story in a way that benefits others, and it makes a difference for people.

Let go and understand that the universe wants more for you than you even know what's possible. Click To Tweet

What got you into writing? What was the moment that you said, “I’ve got to write a book?”

I was a latchkey kid when I grew up. My mom was a very successful businesswoman, and I would take the bus from school to her office, and then I would sit in her office and wait for her to finish work until I could go home with her. Her secretary would always leave, so I would sit and plunk away on her secretary’s typewriter and write, “The woe is me of JB, having to sit here being a latchkey kid and not being able to go home. It’s 7:00 PM, and I still haven’t eaten.” I would pour out my mid junior high angst on my mom’s secretary’s typewriter but I always loved story writing because it was an opportunity for me to escape into fantasy. It allowed me to think of things that had never been done before.

I will tell you that after my successful kids’ clothing company, I did crash and burn. I did go through that very difficult time of reassigning my meaning entirely, and to your point, why was I doing what I was doing. I would go to China 5 to 6 times a year. I would spend 20 to 25 days in Asia away from my kids. I remember coming home eight days before Christmas. I had been gone for three weeks. No one was there to pick me up at the airport. I took a taxi to my house.

When I opened the door, I could hear my kids laughing with the nanny. They were 3 and 5 at the time. I was jealous that they were having fun with the nanny, and instead of saying hello to them, I snuck up to the guest room, which I had been sleeping in for two years because my husband and I weren’t getting along, and I convinced myself it was okay to go to bed that night without seeing my kids. I was like, “Mommy has been on a thirteen-hour flight. She will see them in the morning.”

In the middle of the night, my daughter woke up in her crib, and she started calling the nanny’s name. I knew right there and then that every single thing in my life had to change, including my why. Why was I making kids’ clothes? Why was I running around the world talking about kids’ clothing, health for kids, and functional clothing for kids, and my own kids wouldn’t even call me in the middle of the night?

My why completely shifted, and I went on a two-year sabbatical. I closed my business 90 days after that moment. I sold everything and walked away. I left $780,000 worth of stock in a warehouse. I took my van and my kids. I left my marriage. I started over. I started completely redefining my why. Why was I doing what I was doing? That was probably day one of the road to the JB that you see now.

What was that like? What did you do to rebuild yourself? What did you do to get to know yourself? How did you redevelop JB?

I will be honest. It’s truly so simple. Know thyself. I went deep within. I did meditate. I went to Sedona. I went in silent retreats. I did all kinds of health practitioners. I did Reiki. I tried everything. I tried drawing myself in circles, painting, dancing, sleeping, and writing. I went through every single thing. What did I like? What didn’t I like? What was interesting to me? What was important to me? Everybody was doing this but I didn’t think that was cool. Everybody thought this was amazing but that wasn’t for me.

I started discovering what I liked. What is my currency of success? As a businesswoman, for many years, I was dialed into what was important to men. I thought, “This is successful.” It was the corporate office, the corner room, and the briefcase. I had to define what success was to me, a woman in my 40s, 2 kids, this experience, and living in this town. What was my currency of success? I went into a deep introspection of me and finding out about me, getting to know me, loving me, understanding me, and then accepting why I do what it is I do.

BYW S4 13 | Ignite Lives
Ignite Lives: Let people know that it’s okay to do what’s proven to be successful so they feel the greatest version of themselves.

 

What did you find as your currency of success?

I love showing people that it’s possible. My currency of success is that if I can do it, you can do it, and if I’ve got to do it first to show you that it’s possible, I’m going to do the work. I love doing the work. I love putting in the grind. I love going after it. I love dissecting what’s done and how do we do it better. I felt that if I could be me 100%, show up in total authenticity, tell my story to the world, and let people know that it’s okay to do exactly the same thing so that they feel the greatest version of themselves, that was my mission. That was what I was going to get passionate about.

I have been doing it for the last couple of years, and I love it. I have the best job in the world. I love waking up every day, throwing back the covers at 4:00 AM, and getting going. People think it’s crazy but I love it because I believe that we are a mirror for the people closest to us and from a distance. If we can be a mirror for them to see what’s possible in them, if we can be the catalyst or if we can inspire them in a way that they haven’t seen before by us being our authentic selves, that will create a big and massive shift.

Me being the fake JB, the businesswoman JB or the power version of a female business owner, that was all a stereotype. That was all something that was planted as a seed in me instead of me being authentically me. It takes so much less work and effort to be yourself. You don’t have to think as much. You get to be you and show up as you. It’s way more fun. As a Gemini and as a person who loves the better way, it’s got to be fun or I’m not doing it.

I’m a Gemini in a better way, too. Let me see if this resonates with you because I love what you said, “If I can do it, you can do it because I believe that top,” but I will also add to that. If they can do it, I can do it, and if I can do it, you can do it, because I will see somebody doing that and be like, “If they can do this, then I’m sure I can do it.” Do you notice that as well?

There are so many people out there doing amazing things, and they inspire me. What you have done has inspired me. Your program and your protocol have inspired me. That’s the lifting of the lid that we all have to go through. It’s that it is possible. There is another option. There are other ways of doing it, and when we surround ourselves with people who are challenging that, it lifts our lid and allows us to see things that maybe we didn’t see before from our past conditioning.

I will never be the JB I am now if I kept being the JB that was born in a small town. We often root ourselves in our stories. We can’t do this because of where we came from, who our parents were, we aren’t smart enough, thin enough or rich enough. That story goes with us as we travel through our lives. It isn’t until we tell our story and see it from that bird’s-eye view or from that new updated version. The new version of JB is not necessarily the version of JB that left this town but I have returned to this town.

My mom had a stroke, so I’m back here, and then COVID has kept me here. Interestingly, I sometimes bump into some schoolmates, some friends or people of my parent’s friends who know me. They still think I’m that same person, and I have to chuckle because it is hard sometimes for people to see you for who you really are.

I was reading in some of your notes. You said, “What’s the best advice anyone has ever given or you have given?” For me, it’s always to be who you want to be known for. Be the person you want to be known for. When my son came here, he was starting a new school. He was like, “I’m nervous about starting school tomorrow,” and I said, “What are you nervous about?” He’s like, “I don’t know if the kids are going to like me. I don’t know what everyone is going to think.”

Be the person you want to be known for. Click To Tweet

I said, “Why don’t you be you? Be you and be the person you want to be known for. If you want to be known for the class clown, be that. If you want to be known for the athlete, be that. If you want to be known for the intellect, be that but be who you want to be known for. Don’t be who you think they think you are and don’t be who you think you think you should be. Be who you want to be known for. If you want to be known for you, then be that.”

That’s the best advice that I have been able to give anyone, and I try to live it every day. Whenever I struggle with a choice, it’s like, “What do I want to be known for? Do I want to be known as the person who made this decision or this decision? Do I want to be known as the person who runs this business or lives this life? What do I want to be known for?” That allows us to step into our greater version of ourselves.

I was listening to a speech by Steve Jobs, and in it, he says, “You cannot connect the dots looking forward. You can only connect the dots looking backward.” That’s what you were talking about. You don’t know where you are going to end up. I wonder if that’s a Better Way thing because I feel the same way. I have an idea of where I want to go but along the way, who knows where we are going to end up?

I doubt that I’m going to end up where I thought I was going but it’s going to be a fun journey along the way, and then when I get there, I can look back and connect the dots like, “That’s why I talked to this person, saw this, missed that flight, did this, and all those other things.” You can only connect the dots looking back and not looking forward. Does that make sense?

Yes, and it’s so true. We don’t know what the masters haven’t worked for us. I was writing. I’m doing a new book called Wisdom for the Back of a Bike, and it’s about my cycle ride. We had a plan to get to the other side of Canada to dip our toe in the Atlantic Ocean, and of course, COVID stopped us along the way because they were not letting people into the Atlantic provinces with the Atlantic bubble. We looped around Canada and ended up being at the parliament building. We decided we were going to make the Parliament Buildings in Ottawa be our final destination. That was going to be our 5,000 kilometers. It was a beautiful experience. It was so full of accomplishment and pride.

That very day was the first time they were ever going to allow public speaking on Parliament Hill and have an open mic, so because of everything that was happening in COVID and the way that things were unfolding in politics, they decided to have an open mic first time ever on Capitol Hill in the Parliament. I threw my hand up and put my name on the list to be one of the speakers. My kids were mortified. They couldn’t believe that their mom was going to talk. I’m in my cycling gear and my cycling cleats.

I went up on stage and started to say like, “I’m JB, and I cycled 5,000 kilometers across Canada. I want to tell people that anything is possible.” It was a glorious experience because when I was eleven years old, I promised my Social Studies teacher that I would one day speak in Parliament, and then I thought, “Here we go. The universe has wrapped this whole dream around years later,” but I had no idea that not dipping my toe in the Atlantic Ocean would lead to me being on Parliament Hill speaking to thousands of people and talking about what’s possible.

What was your first book?

The very first book I wrote in 2003 was called Letters for My Mother. Interestingly enough, I had a difficult relationship with my mom when I was in my teenage years. I ended up leaving college and going to the Dominican Republic because it was about as far away as I could get from her on the cheapest ticket I could find. I lived in the Dominican for three years, and the fascinating part of that was that I thought I had everything growing up in Canada from a very affluent family but I realized I had nothing.

BYW S4 13 | Ignite Lives
Letters For My Mother

Those people in the Dominican had nothing. They lived in shacks and dirt floors but they had everything because they had their dignity, their faith, and they had each other, and they had a family. While I was away, I started writing letters to my mom to heal my relationship with her. I wrote her 200 letters over the three years. She never wrote me back but when I came home, I had such a beautiful relationship with her. I had worked through so many of my problems by writing her letters that I was inspired to write a book about how adult daughters and mothers can heal their relationships. That book is finding a better way on how you can heal a relationship. That was my first book in 2003.

How many books did you write until you decided you were going to a publishing company?

I wrote that single book, and then I wrote about four books that sat on the shelf and didn’t go to print. One day in 2018, I was sitting at a conference. There was a bunch of people up on stage telling their stories. Many of them were crying and losing their resolve because they were telling these emotional stories but the fascinating thing is when they’ve got offstage, people were hugging them, stepping out of the front row, embracing them, and welcoming them. Throughout the week at the conference, people became so close because they told their private and personal stories on stage. They became vulnerable and authentic.

I sat in the audience thinking, “We have something here. Every single person on the planet wants to be seen. Everyone has a story and deserves to be heard. If we could tell the stories in a way that showed the transformation, the growth, and the learning, we could make a difference.” No matter what color you are, what gender you are, where you live or how much is in your wallet, you can relate to the human experience of that hero’s journey between, “Do I become a victim or a villain, or do I take the hero’s journey, and I go for what’s better in my life?” That was the igniting moment where I realized I have to be the person to help people tell their stories.

I have to make a difference. The difference I’m going to make is giving everyone a platform to tell their beautiful and amazing transformational story. I, too, had a story because after I divorced my first husband, I had got into another relationship. It was very abusive, and that relationship was very short but I hid that story for a long time because I was embarrassed by it, and that hiding of that story kept me down. It held me back because I was always afraid people were going to find out that I made such a bad decision.

It wasn’t until I started telling that story that other women came out of the woodwork saying that they too had a similar experience, they could relate or that they appreciated me telling their story because it gave them the courage to tell their story. There was quite a process of me realizing how powerful storytelling is. Now 700 stories and multiple international best-selling books with the hundreds of thousands of people who have read our stories, I realize how valuable that genuine heartfelt story is and how much it changes people’s lives.

Tell us about your publishing company. What is it called, and who do you ideally like to work with?

We call it Ignite Publishing, and it is about igniting lives. I love working with people who have a mission and a message, and people who want to make an impact on others. I’m not the kind of publishing house where we put words on a page, pages in a book, and books on the shelf. We walk you through a transformational experience. As a writer, especially when you are telling your own story, you toggle between the fun, joy, struggles, pains, sorrows, and agony, and then there’s this incredibly rewarding experience at the end.

I work with people who want to tell their stories and who want to make an impact. I work with people who have a mission and have a higher purpose. They want to do something that’s going to benefit others. I strongly believe in the triple win. I win, you win, and someone else wins. Someone who reads your story wins. Someone they work with wins.

There are incremental ways to make an impact. Click To Tweet

The proceeds from all of our books are going towards building schools in Cambodia for underprivileged kids. The triple win is now these kids that get to find out what’s possible for them and how to step into their greatness. We did a book with Les Brown that is all about greatness and igniting the hunger in you. I’m so passionate about the fact that these children who may not know what’s possible for them or may not ever have that deep desire and passion to go after their greatness will now have an environment to do so. That’s the whole thing that Ignite is all about.

Are you looking for people that have a story but don’t know how to tell it or are you looking for people that are already established writers and are looking for a platform? Tell us more about who you are looking for.

I love those people who want a better way to get to the experience. I like people who are potentially not authors but they know they want to be authors. They are people who have a story and want to write it but they want to do it in the most efficient, practical, rewarding, enjoyable, affordable, and pleasurable way possible. I want it to be a maximum experience.

It is people who want to be a part of a community. If you are in an Ignite book, you step into a community of like-minded people. Every book has a theme, so you are with people who are of your peers, and then you use the collaboration of the peers to elevate, encourage, and create great partnerships that are going to benefit you and the whole purpose of the book.

I’m always looking for people who have a story, who want to make an impact, and who understand that there are these incremental ways to do things, and I help you get to the finish line because there are a lot of people who don’t know how to get to the finish line. It’s no different than if I wanted to fly an airplane, I would have to sit in the cockpit, and someone would have to teach me how to use the dials. That’s what we do. We do all the heavy lifting for you, and we show you how to do it. Ultimately because I want you to succeed. We show you how you can do it with your own solo book and with your books to come. I really teach you the business of being an author.

Now I’m seeing a little better. In the background behind JB are Ignite Recovery and a couple of others.

Ignite Female Leadership, Ignite Your Life for Women, and Ignite Health and Wellness.

They are a group book, so it would be like a theme, and then if you have a story about recovery, health, or different things, then you would go in that particular book with a group of other authors that are similar.

Our new book coming out is Ignite Your Wisdom, so it’s all about Ignite stories around wisdom. These are people who are thought leaders, inventors, and who are into the mindset and who have had incredible experiences where something has opened up their lid and evolved their thinking, and broke down their limiting beliefs. They are people who are in that mind space or in that marketplace, so they want to write a book that has other people doing the same thing that would attract a customer that wants the answers to that problem.

BYW S4 13 | Ignite Lives
Ignite Lives: Give everyone a platform to tell their beautiful and amazing transformational story.

 

Do we get multiple stories per book?

Yes, and action steps. Every single author puts not just their story, but then they put in the action steps that they took to get themselves there. As a better way person, I’m like, “Give me the baseline or bottom line of what do I need to do consistently every day to get myself to success,” so every single author writes their action steps at the end of their story.

If there’s somebody that’s reading and says, “I really want to connect with JB. I want to learn more about her books. I want to write a book. I want to be part of this,” what’s the best way to get in touch with you?

Come to IgniteYou.life. That’s our website. You can go there. You can always find me on Facebook and Instagram. I’m the only JB Owen. I would love for you to reach out to me directly. I’m so accessible because I believe like a magnet, all the right and perfect people come to me to tell their stories. When somebody steps into my Viewfinder or into my world, I know that they are ready and that this is their time.

They just need me to help be the midwife to move them through the process. It’s easy to find me. Go to IgniteYou.life. You can go to Amazon and see all of our books are in a series. You can reach out to us that way, and you can get our books on our website. Please reach out to me. I would love to help you share your story.

I didn’t ask you the most obvious question, and that is what does JB stand for?

It’s such a great story. It’s all I’ve got. It’s all my parents gave me when I was born in a small town. My mom was not allowed to leave the hospital without giving me a name but my dad happened to be in Mexico racing riverboats. My mom put JB on the birth certificate, thinking that when my dad came back, they would call me Julie, Barbara, or Brenda. For the whole month that he was away, they called me baby JB because they didn’t know what my name was going to be, so when my dad came home after being in Mexico, he said, “JB. That’s cool. Let’s go with that.”

Thank you so much for taking the time to be here. It has been awesome talking to you. I love what you are doing. I’m excited to read your books, and hopefully, there are people that are reading that are right in line with what you want to do, and they will connect with you because you’ve got a great mission. I’m excited for us to stay in touch as we move along.

Thank you. I would love to reward your authors. I love giving things away, so if they would DM me or send something to me and put the word, “Why,” or we talked about on this episode, I happily will send anyone a link to any one of our books so that they can read the stories and be inspired. I would love to give them a book for free so that they can enjoy it.

Evolve your thinking and break down your limiting beliefs. Click To Tweet

Thank you for being here.

Thank you. You have been a treat to speak with. You are a blessing. I can’t wait to go forward, knowing the why so clearly. It’s beautiful.

Thank you.

It’s time for our new segment, which is Guess Their Why. For this one, I want to pick Elvis Presley. What do you think Elvis Presley’s why is? When you think about his life and the journeys that he has gone on, how he was an unknown, very successful, and then went off the deep end a little bit? He ended up a different person in a different place with a different set of struggles before he passed away.

What do you think Elvis Presley’s why is? I’m going to guess that his why is to challenge the status quo and to think differently. Even the way he danced was different. Everything about him was different. He created so many new things and brought them to the forefront of many people around the world.   He did things differently. People loved it and loved him.

What do you think his why is? I would be curious to see what you think. I want to thank you for reading. If you have not yet discovered your why reading this show, knowing your why will be so much more powerful for you. Go to WhyInstitute.com. You can use the code PODCAST50 and discover your why for half the price. If you love the show, please don’t forget to subscribe and leave us a review or rating on whatever platform you are using to tune in. Thank you so much. I will see you.

Important Links:

About JB Owen

BYW S4 13 | Ignite LivesJB Owen is a world-class speaker, 17-time bestselling author, accomplished publisher, and global business owner. She is the Founder and CEO of the Ignite Publishing, the leaders in empowerment books; publishing over 700 authors to date. She owns Ignite Moments Media where she produces transformational television, inspirational content, and life-changing events.