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The WHY Of Trust: Hope, Life, Grief With Katty Douraghy

BYW S4 23 Katty | WHY Of Trust

 

It’s challenging to overcome grief and many other challenges in life if you don’t trust yourself. Dr. Gary Sanchez welcomes Katty Douraghy, the President of Artisan Creative and the author of The Butterfly Years. Katty shares how losing many of her loved ones so close to each other devastated her. It took her years to learn how to live through it and gain hope. For her, the healing process began by trusting herself. Where did she slowly learn to trust herself? By belonging to a community that accepted her. Join the conversation to learn more about the WHY of Trust.

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The WHY Of Trust: Hope, Life, Grief With Katty Douraghy

In this episode, we are going to be talking about the why of trust, to create relationships based upon trust. People with this why believe that trust is the most important thing and will work hard to create it. They will become educated as experts in a particular subject and demonstrate that expertise as a way of establishing trust.

They will do things right to demonstrate that they are trustworthy. They want to know that you believe in them and will go the extra mile to demonstrate with their actions, words, and deeds. In communication with someone with this why, you might read words along the lines of, “You can count on me.”

I have got a great guest for you. Her name is Katty Douraghy. She is President of Artisan Creative, a staffing and recruitment agency focusing on digital, creative, and marketing talent. She is the Founder of Inspiring Hiring, an online resume and a job posting portal. She is also a team and retreat facilitator working closely with entrepreneurs to become better versions of themselves.

She is the podcast host for The Artisan Podcast, sharing stories of creativity and inspiration. She is also the author of Butterfly Years, sharing the lessons learned during a long period of grief and mourning that led to a path towards hope. Her last project, the Butterfly Years Journal, a daily journal from grief to growth, came out in January 2022. She believes we all have a story to share and that our greatest journey towards hope and healing is through self-reflection and discovery. Welcome to the show.

Thank you for that illustrious intro. I appreciate it.

I have been looking forward to this, and we have been talking about doing this for quite a while because you are familiar with the 9 Whys and the Why.os and all of this. You have been doing this for quite a while. Let’s first learn a little bit about you. Tell us about your name.

It is short for Katāyoun, which is a fictitious princess’ name in old Persian folklore.

Where did you grow up? Where were you born? Tell us what you were like in high school, and take us on your journey.

I grew up in Iran until the age of thirteen. We immigrated because of the revolution in Iran. We immigrated first to England and then to the US. My high school years were tough for me. High school years were during the time that the hostages were taken. The last thing I wanted to do was be Iranian. I tried hard to suppress that side of me and my identity and shove it aside.

Not having a security blanket allows you to put yourself out there. Click To Tweet

I passport many different cultures. I pretended I was Italian, Mexican, and Indian. You name it, anything but Iranian. It has taken many years to settle into who I am. For many years, I thought I did not belong anywhere. Now I realize that I belong everywhere. I’m a mixture of Eastern, West, and everything in between. That is me in and nutshell.

Were you in England during that time or during the hostage?

We were in England for a short time right after the revolution. By the time we moved to the US, it was around the time when the hostages were taken. High school was not fun.

Where was your high school?

My high school was in Northern California in a town called Cupertino, which everybody knows now because Apple is there. Apple was not there back then. It is the same high school that Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak went to, Homestead High School.

Did you know him?

No, they were before me.

Take us into what it was like back then. What was a day in the life of an Iranian girl in high school like? What was it like going to high school?

BYW S4 23 Katty | WHY Of Trust
Not having a security blanket allows you to put yourself out there.

High school was tough because I started high school in the middle of ninth grade. High school is not easy at any age, regardless of being a foreigner in the middle of the high school years. Add to that what was happening out in the world. At the time, many people did not know where Iran was, and they only associated Iran with the Diatoula or with hostages. It was a tough time.

The beauty of what was happening during high school was that my cousin also lived with us at the time. She immigrated, and her parents were still overseas. She came and lived with us. For the first three and a half years of high school, I had her. She was my security blanket, and I stuck to her closely. She graduated early and left to go to Texas.

For the last semester in high school, I had to figure out how to navigate waters. As tough as it was, it was good for me not to have that security blanket. It allowed me to put myself out there. My English was good. It was not great but it forced me to become great. I even became an English Literature major in college. Something happened during that last year.

It forced you to trust yourself.

Yes.

Where did you go to college?

I went to college in Santa Cruz, also in Northern California. At the beginning of my high school years, I did not trust anyone else because I did not trust where I was coming from. It took me a while to recognize that, and I was on solid ground as to who I was as a person. By the time I went to college, it was when I had started to learn how to spread my wings.

It was a completely different story. I was out there. I had lots of friends, and I was incredibly social. I came out of this chrysalis. I have used the butterfly chrysalis analogy throughout my life. In high school, I was in this dark place. In college, I came out and was the social butterfly. I was everywhere. It came into my own and found my voice then.

It’s important to share your story with other people. Click To Tweet

It is interesting to think about somebody with a why of trust, not even in your circumstances but in general, having to go through high school. Nobody trusts themselves in high school, at least most people do not. I know I did not. You do not know where you are going and what you are about. It is challenging anyways but with the why of trust, seeing is the most important relationship with yourself. That can cause a lot of anxiety.

The whole notion of self-trust was not there. I questioned everything. I did everything I said. If whatever I said did not land well on someone, that little voice in my head was like, “You did this wrong.” That is such a difficult thing for a young person to go through. It can set the stage for self-doubt at later ages. I’m fortunate that because of the trust that I was able to gain later on in my college years, it did not end up having a lasting impact.

Off to college in Santa Cruz, you majored in English Literature. What did you do with that?

I did not do anything with it. I did learn how to speak English better, which I certainly needed for living here. This is home for me now. What I did after that was I went to the Fashion Institute of Design & Merchandising. I was interested in the fashion space. I ended up working in retail and fashion for several years.

This is an interesting story where I could see my why. I can see it now. I was not aware of it back then but where I could see how my why had impacted my career trajectory all these years. When I started in retail, I was a personal shopper. We would get into dressing rooms with people to help consult on the fit, color, shape, and analyze body shapes to be able to make recommendations.

There is nothing more intimate than being with someone who is trusting you to undress and allow you to give them some feedback as to what could be a stronger, better version of themselves. This is through clothing and fashion but when I look back on how my trust manifested itself, that was powerful to be able to do that.

How long did you do that?

Several years.

BYW S4 23 Katty | WHY Of Trust
WHY Of Trust: There is nothing more intimate than being with someone who trusts you for them to undress and allow you to give them feedback.

 

What happened after that?

My husband, Jamie, recruited me to come and work for his company, which is the staffing and recruiting firm that I own and run. He was like, “You have all this experience. You have managed these larger teams, dollar amounts. Come, I could use your help.” I did, and that was an interesting thing starting to work with your spouse. We had to define roles. That is where trust had to come into play. He trusted me that I could run this business that he had started and founded, and I trusted myself that I was not going to let him down and do things the right way to hopefully grow the business.

For the readers that are not familiar with Jamie, he is Katty’s husband. I have had him on the show before. Jamie has got a fascinating story about how he discovered his why down in Argentina. On his way back, he decided he was going to put you in charge. You became the CEO.

It is all because of the why. I should tell this story to your readers. Jamie went on this trip to Argentina and had an opportunity to discover his why while he was on this trip. He comes back and says, “I figured out my why. I know what I’m going to be doing next. I’m stepping out of the business, and it is all yours.” I was like, “You are doing what?”

It was the beginning of this beautiful relationship. As a couple, understanding our why and being able to communicate through that has been incredibly powerful. I can’t recommend it enough to anyone who has discovered their why to encourage their spouse and partner to do the same because it does impact how we communicate and show up for each other. Thanks, Gary.

It is interesting because you have the why of trust, and he has the why of contribute. That is a particularly good match, those two together. You want to make sure that you create a trust for him, and he wants to make sure that he contributes to you. It does not get any better than that. That seems to be the combination that I have seen over time work the best. You two happen to have that. What I do not know is how did you meet Jamie?

We met at a Halloween party. For your reader who knows his story, Jamie is a fencer. He was at this Halloween party in full fencing garb with his mask on his weapon and all dressed in white. I was a Persian cat, which is not imaginative. The party was at a restaurant that had closed down for that evening, and they had all these Halloween decorations everywhere. They had boards and pomegranates. That was part of the decorations. I love pomegranates. I’m a huge fan of it. I was like, “Does anybody want to share a pomegranate with me?” Jamie stepped forth. Even with his pristine white fencing outfit, he cut into this pomegranate. That was it. We met in 1992.

You took over Artisan Creative, and you have been running that for how long because I know now you have some other interests on top of that.

Live for other people, especially those who can't live anymore. Click To Tweet

I have been running the business now since 2012. I’m passionate about it. My why shows up there every day. In the recruitment space, if you cannot establish trust between both hiring managers, specifically also with candidates, it takes a lot of trust for someone to leave a job and trust you that what you are presenting to them is a better opportunity for them. I see that come into play daily. Trust shows up in my everyday interactions.

I have been running Artisan for several years. I have a great team. I’m still involved, hands-on, day-to-day but I’m also passionate about a lot of other things. I’m passionate about facilitation, bringing people together, and creating a space so they can have a trusted conversation with each other. I’m active on that side. As you mentioned, a few years ago, I embarked finally on using my English Literature degree on this journey towards hope because of some personal tragedies that had happened in my life. I knew I had to tell the story.

You wrote a book called the Butterfly Years. What is the book about? Who is the book for?

The book is about my journey through grief. I lost my stepmother in January 2011, my father in February 2011, and my mother in April 2011. In 2013, I lost my cousin, Malise, the same cousin who lived with me for years. We went to high school together. I lost her as well as my uncle. That was compounded by the loss of my stepdad several years after that. For a four-year period, it was a pretty dark time.

This journey of grief was overwhelming for me. I was not sure how to navigate it. At the same time, as I was going through grief, life and love were around me. I was in this space of this duality of love and loss, death and life, and all of that. I had a hard time coming to grasp it. Once I did, I thought it was important to share that with other people. That is what I needed to get this story out. Story sharing was cathartic to put it out there. My goal was to be able to help others who were going through what I was going through, what I had gone through, and what I had learned.

The story initially was not intended to be a memoir. It became one. I can only assume that some people up there wanted to have their story told. The journal was intended to be the only thing I was ever going to create. I wanted a self-help manual for other people to navigate this journey. My story needed to come out first, and it did.

The reason that it took three years for me to write this teeny tiny little book was going back to trust. I needed to make sure that I honored the legacy of my parents. The book is specifically about my mom and my relationship with her but other people and their stories are in there, too. I was not trusting myself that I was telling her story in the right way.

I had several drafts that I crumbled papers, threw it out, rewrote, and cried through the whole thing as I wrote it because it was important to make sure that I was doing this properly. It was honoring and trusting the relationship I had with her, not just in life but in death. I knew her story was going to continue by writing about her, and it had to be done the right way.

BYW S4 23 Katty | WHY Of Trust
WHY Of Trust: Create a space where people can trust they’ll be safe without judgment.

 

What is grief?

Grief is a different thing for different people. My biggest lesson here is that there isn’t one way to grieve, to experience loss. What it was for me was a mixture of emotions. For some reason, I had read about grief and going through grief. I thought it was this linear thing that you went through anger, denial, and this and that. It was not that. It was this big ball of a mess of emotions that went back and forth between sadness and happiness.

Talk about self-judgment, trust, and self-trust. When I had a moment of respite, I would laugh at what was going on. I did it with guilt, and I was not trusting that I was doing this the right way. I kept questioning myself, “Am I honoring properly? Should I be grieving more? If I laugh, is it the wrong thing?” What grief is whatever anyone feels that it is for them. For someone, it has an external expression, and for others, it is an internal journey that they go through. Mine was a mishmash of everything.

What happened to you? What was the turning point? What was the learning point of figuring out how to handle your grief?

It was simultaneous. At the same time that death happened, life was happening around me. I had a hard time recognizing what was going on. Driving from the hospital to my stepdad’s house, this was April 2011. My mom passed away on April 17th, 2011. They were looking out the windows as we were driving. I pushed the button to lower down the window, and looking out the window was beautiful.

I had not seen flowers that vibrant ever. I had not seen grass that green ever. Something had happened to me. It feels like I woke up. While I was distraught, I was also recognizing that something was happening. The sun did come out the next day, which I was not expecting for it to come out. The loss, grief, and learning to live with it happened simultaneously, even though I did not see it at the time.

It took a few years to recognize that but that juxtaposition of love and loss, life and death, was powerful from the first moment. The colors were vibrant. The smells were too much. My taste buds were alive. It was a hard thing to describe. At the time, I was like, “I had never tasted this before because every sense was heightened.” This is my personal belief. I believe that I was living for other people because they could not live anymore. I think everything had come to me. They trusted me with living life for them.

Why do you think you had that revelation? Why do you think that happened to you?

Be part of a community that appreciates you. Click To Tweet

If I could pinpoint what happened, I would have another book in me to be able to share that with others. I do not know what happened. All I can think about is at the moment when I watched death happen when I witnessed my mom take her last breath. For the first time, I realized how precious life was and that this was my opportunity to continue living and live it as I had never lived it before. I took over Artisan that same year, within a few months of the loss happening. The switch was turned on, and I was like, “I’m going to say yes to everything. I’m going to take life by the horns and go for it.” My only explanation is that witnessing death somehow sparked life within me.

What was the turning point that you had from high school to college, from the scared Katty to the outgoing, creative Katty? What was that moment that allowed you to switch?

It was having a belonging and a community that had acceptance. With that acceptance came the realization that I could trust myself and others. A big piece of it is in high school, I did not trust others either, but in college, I could. Everyone was from somewhere else. We were all starting at the same footing. Whereas in high school, I entered the middle of this tumultuous period that was happening in the world. In college, we all started the journey together but having this acceptance and being in the community, accepted and allowed me to trust myself.

You have all the challenges with the family members passing. It seems like you were able to start anew again.

That goes back to the community. As you know, I’m very involved with the Entrepreneurs’ Organization, EO. I had several opportunities through my volunteer work with EO to share my story and be part of a community that appreciated hearing it. I have other people come up to me and say, “No one has talked about grief like this before. Thank you.” To be able to have that and realize that we do not talk about death. No one wants to talk but it is the reality for all of us. Can we create a trusted and safe space to be able to talk about death and not feel that we are being judged? Talk about grief and not feel that we need to be rushed to get over it because we are all going to go through it on our own terms and pace.

In a certain way, all the challenges you went through and the death of your family members ended up being positive. However that happened, it was flipped from grief to life.

I read a proverb, which was the beginning of the journey towards hope. It said, “Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, it became a butterfly.” That was a lifeline that I held onto it. During those darkest days, I would say, “I’m going to come out of this. This is darkness. This is a chrysalis. I’m going to come out of it and be a butterfly. I’m going take wing.” There were many days that I doubted that but that put one step in front of the next, and that is what has got me through.

When you are done with grief, is it over, is it still lingering, is it still pop up every now and then? How does that work?

BYW S4 23 Katty | WHY Of Trust
WHY Of Trust: A trigger is just a stimulus; how we behave towards it is on us.

 

It pops up all the time. I do not think it is over. There was a time that I thought maybe one would heal from it but I have realized that is not the case. We learned to accept and live with it but it is there. A smell, picture or a memory triggers it all the time. At the strangest of times, it comes up. It is a beautiful thing. I do not mind it coming up. I don’t want to ever forget. It is a reminder for me, and that is a good thing.

From there, you and Jamie have started to work with couples in the EO organization. What is your focus on your couple’s work?

I spend quite a bit of time on communication on triggers. My secret sauce or power is to create a safe environment for people to have conversations. Trust as the dominant force is there. If I can create a space where people can trust that they will be safe and share whatever they want to share without judgment, I have done my job. That is what Jamie and I spend our time with.

Jamie speaks about the why, the communication between couples, and how important that is. A lot of what we do is also experience sharing because knowing what our whys are has been a huge transformation in our relationship. Back in the day, before we knew what we know now, Jamie would get a little annoyed with me, and he thought I would be dwelling on things.

“I dwell on possibilities,” on my walls is the favorite quote for me. He had a hard time recognizing why. It took me a while to get over things, the spoken word with someone, not necessarily with him but with someone or someone who did not do what they said they were going to do or me staying up until 2:00 in the morning because I had told someone I was going to do something for them. He couldn’t understand why I was taking as much time or not getting over it as quickly as he was.

When we went through our why discovery and recognized that creating relationships based on trust is what is my driving force, and then he understood. Since then, he has never once asked me, “Why are you still dwelling on this? Why are you working until 2:00 in the morning?” He knows that it is coming from a place where I have to do it.

I can imagine that you have taught him to create a safe space because he does that as well, at least, maybe not within his marriage because sometimes that can be harder for other people that know Jamie. That is what people say about him.

He does it naturally and because his why is to contribute. He does it from that point of view. He is creating a safe space because he is contributing to the greater good so people can have conversations with each other. Our end goal ends up being the same. How we go about it is different.

Ask questions from a curiosity standpoint. Click To Tweet

Do you work in larger groups? Is it five couples? What size groups do you work with, and what do you do with them? What do you call the workshops that you and Jamie do?

The couple sizes differ at anywhere from ten couples to larger. We have done it for about eight couples. Probably it is the smallest group that we have done it. We are not couples counselors. It is not a one-to-one thing with couples. What we do is give them the tools so they can communicate and talk about things that maybe they do not naturally talk about.

We are facilitating conversations and asking questions from a curiosity standpoint, so they can feel comfortable to be able to answer that with each other. Jamie does the discovering their whys with them, creating a space so they can have a conversation around that. We utilize some of the tools. I talk about triggers and how couples get triggered. Getting triggered is not a bad thing. It is how we behave after we are triggered. That is the bad thing.

A trigger could be a positive thing. It is part of some learning that I have had with Marshall Goldsmith about triggers and a variety of other things about listening. We talk a lot about listening and laugh about it too because we experience sharing. I’m not sharing anything with anyone that I have not gone through myself. There is a lot of humor in that.

Let’s talk about triggers because that is an interesting thing for me. I was a dentist for so long, and people would get triggered by the dentist. They would walk into the dental office, and they would get triggered by a smell, a look or whatever. Do you overcome a trigger? Do you roll with it? What is your advice for people dealing with triggers? It’s because we all are.

We all get triggered all the time. The first thing would be, and this is what I learned from Marshall Goldsmith’s teachings is, a trigger is a trigger. It is a stimulus. How we behave towards it is on us. If we decide and choose to change our behavior, what are the steps we can take? An example of that is my mom passed away from lung cancer. She smoked until the very end. The last week, when she was in the hospital, was the only time she did not smoke.

Every time I would walk into her house and smell the cigarette smoke, I would get triggered. In the beginning, I would get into an argument with her, “Why are you smoking? It is not good for you. Don’t you know you are sick?” She knows she is sick. I realized one day that her time was limited. If every interaction with her is going to be a negative interaction, that is the last thing I want.

I was still triggered by the cigarette smoke but what I learned to do was to change my behavior. I would walk into the house. I would smell the cigarette smoke. I would wait a few minutes outside the door before I went into her bedroom. I would wait until she was done with the cigarette and walk in. She was not going to change smoking. The trigger was going to be the trigger but the only thing I could control was my behavior.

BYW S4 23 Katty | WHY Of Trust
WHY Of Trust: Trust yourself.

 

That is the only thing all of us can have any say in how we react to things, not the external stimulus. The external stimulus is going to be there. My brother is also a smoker. He and she would sit around together and have the best conversations because they were having a smoke together. That same stimulus, as negative as it was for me, was not a negative stimulus for him. Anything else was positive because they would sit around, have a chat, a cup of tea, and a cigarette together.

My perception of a trigger is probably inaccurate. What I have heard when people say, “I’m triggered,” gives me freedom and reign to blow up or react any way I want to react because I have been triggered. It is like my free pass to do whatever the heck I want to do because I have been triggered. The way you said it was different. Your trigger is a stimulus that causes a reaction but you can choose what that reaction is.

Driving is a trigger for me. I have paid attention to this. The environment clearly makes a difference. If I’m hot, late, traffic, it puts me in a bad mood. I’m triggered negatively. If I’m not late, if the AC is on, and I’m not hot, temperature and punctuality are triggers for me because of the trust thing. If I was late and it was not the right way either, I did not do what I said I was going to do. That is where it shows up for me. If I’m not late and have all the time in the world, you could put me in traffic, and I’m not triggered at all. I’m listening to music or an audiobook. All is good. I’m enjoying the extra time that I have but the traffic is the stimulus.

Last question for you, Katty. What is the best piece of advice you have ever been given or what is the best piece of advice you have ever given to somebody?

Trust yourself because it took me many years to get there and realize that it is similar to triggers. All the tools are within me. I just had to trust myself to be able to rely on those tools. I have sharpened those tools over the years.

Katty, if somebody is reading this and they say, “I would love to connect with you. I would love to have you come work with our group or connect with you about Artisan,” what would be the best way for them to connect with you?

I’m on LinkedIn. You will find me, @KattyDouraghy. ButterflyYears.com, you can connect with me directly at KattyDouraghy.com. All my facilitation work is on there. You can connect with me there or at KattyD@ArtisanCreative.com.

Thank you so much for being on the show. I have been looking forward to this since I saw you. For the readers, Katty is in LA now, but she is about to move as soon as the house gets built to Albuquerque. We are going to be neighbors soon. I’m looking forward to that.

Me too, Gary. Thank you for having me.

Take care.

It is time for our new segment, Guess the Why. For this one, we are going to use Will Smith. Will Smith went on stage and slapped Chris Rock because he said something derogatory or made fun of Will Smith’s wife and about her not having any hair. He called her GI Jane, and he did not like it. He went on stage and slapped Chris Rock. Some people think that it was the right thing, and some people think it was the wrong thing to do but what do you think will Smith’s why is?

If I had to guess, I would guess that his why is trust. I have heard Will Smith talk and listened to some interviews with him. He talks a lot about trusting yourself, focusing on yourself first, and being the person you can trust. I’m sure that Chris Rock talking about his wife broke their bond and trust because they were friends, and it was not okay. It was not appropriate for him to do that from Will Smith’s perspective, especially through what she has been suffering.

My guess is trust. What do you think? If you can, tell us what you think. I want to thank you for reading. If you have not yet discovered your why, you can do so at WhyInstitute.com, with the code PODCAST50. You can get it for 50% off. If you love the show, please do not forget to subscribe and leave us a review and rating. Thank you so much, and have a great week.

 

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About Katty Douraghy

BYW S4 23 Katty | WHY Of TrustKatty is president of Artisan Creative, a staffing and recruitment agency focusing on digital, creative, and marketing talent, and founder of Inspiring Hiring, an online resume, and job posting portal. Katty is also a team and retreat facilitator working closely with entrepreneurs to become better versions of themselves. Katty is the podcast host for the artisan podcast, sharing stories of creativity and inspiration,
Katty is also the author of The Butterfly Years, sharing the lessons learned during a long period of grief and mourning that led to a path towards hope. Her next project, The Butterfly Years Journal, a daily journal from grief to growth will be out in Nov 2021. butterflyyears.com
Katty believes we all have a story to share and that our greatest journey towards hope and healing is through self-reflection and self-discovery.
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Podcast

Finding A Better Way To Ignite Lives With JB Owen

BYW S4 13 | Ignite Lives

When you share your transformational story, you create impact and ignite lives. JB Owen, the founder and CEO at Ignite You, is passionate about working with people who have a higher mission and purpose. JB is a fearless female leader and a believer in the power of empowerment. Join in the conversation and witness how JB’s WHY played a huge impact in forming her to be a world-class speaker, 17-time bestselling author, and powerful business owner. She’s helped over 700 authors become international best-sellers. Don’t miss out on this igniting episode!

Watch the episode here:

Listen to the podcast here:

Finding A Better Way To Ignite Lives With JB Owen

If you are a regular audience, you know that every week, we talk about 1 of the 9 whys, and then we bring on somebody with that why so you can see how their why has played out in their life. In this episode, we are going to be talking about the why of Better Way. If this is your why, then you are the ultimate innovator, and you are constantly seeking better ways to do everything. You find yourself wanting to improve virtually anything by finding a way to make it better.

You also desire to share your improvement with the world. You constantly ask yourself questions like, “What if we tried this differently? What if we did this another way? How can we make this better?” You contribute to the world with better processes and systems while operating under the motto, “I’m often pleased but never satisfied.” You are excellent at associating, which means that you are adept at taking ideas or systems from one industry or discipline and applying them to another, always with the ultimate goal of improving something.

In this episode, I’ve got a great guest for you. Her name is JB Owen. She is a fearless female leader and a believer in the power of empowerment. Her true focus is on helping others, which is why she started Ignite Publishing, the leader in empowerment publishing, in 2018. She’s a world-class speaker, a seventeen-time best-selling author, and a powerful business owner. She has published over 700 authors, turning them into international bestsellers. She combines purpose, passion, and possibility in everything she does. She is truly inspirational, motivational, transformational in the way she teaches and empowers others. JB, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much. What a beautiful intro. Thank you for having me.

Tell us a little bit about where you live.

I like to say my furniture is in Canada. I have been traveling for years. I am now on the West side of Canada, and we are experiencing a tiny little bit of snow. We are pretty lucky that it’s the end of November 2021, and we’ve only got a bit of snow. I am enjoying the Rocky Mountains of Alberta, Canada.

Tell us how did you get to where you are now. Where did you grow up? What were you like in high school? Where did you go to school, and how did you get into publishing?

I will quickly tell you the story. I grew up in a small town of 70,000 people. It’s not that small but it felt small to me. I was always an outcast. I was dressing in ways that didn’t fit into the town, doing things, challenging the status quo, planning things, and making all kinds of stuff happen. The town did not understand me at all, so eleven days after I graduated, I moved to Vancouver. I started working in the film and fashion business. I started my own company right out of college, and I have been in film and fashion ever since.

Interestingly enough, when I had my first child, I started a great clothing company. I did that for quite a few years and then had that great self-implosion that many of us have when we entrepreneur ourselves right out of a marriage and our health, so it took a couple of years to ground myself and focus. I started writing and telling stories. I had always been making products and developing things, so it was a natural progression for me to get into publishing, working with private clients, and now, it has grown into this incredible business of Ignite.

Always figure out how you can fix the process, tweak it, and make it better. Click To Tweet

Let’s go back a little bit. In high school, you were that kid that was a little bit different. For those of you that are reading and cannot see us, JB has platinum-colored hair. Do you change your hair color quite often or not?

I have always been platinum since I was seventeen. I say some people are born blonde, and some are born to be blonde. I have been dying my hair platinum since I was seventeen. I always had big jewelry, big earrings and lipstick. I was loving life, and I have always loved fashion and clothes. When I was a teenager, I had purple and pink hair. I had handcuffs on my boots and leopard pants.

I was way out there, and in a small town in the prairies where everyone is a farmer, it was a shocking thing. In fact, people would phone my parents and say, “I saw your daughter at the mall.” It was shocking to them but I wanted to be in fashion. I wanted to be in the theater and walking the Paris runway. I wanted to be out there doing stuff and so much more than what my small town had to offer.

We had JB discover not only her why but her how and what. Her why is Better Way, and her how is challenge, which explains so much of what we heard. How she does it is by challenging the way things are done and doing things differently, and ultimately, her what is what she brings. It is the right way to get results, the structure and process systems around getting predictable results. When you discovered that, what did that feel like to you?

Your process was phenomenal. It touched my heart. I felt verklempt a little bit because I was like, “It understands me so well if this is exactly who I am.” It was beautiful to read it and see like, “That’s what I do. That’s what I’m good at, and that’s what I love doing.” Sometimes, people chastise you, and they give you a hard time for the way you do things, especially people like me who want to find the better way, who want to find the better way again, who keep going at it, and who are never satisfied. It was so rewarding to read it and be like, “That’s exactly me.”

It’s okay to be you.

I love being me, and it’s taken me a while but I will say that growing up with the name JB, in a small town, wanting to be in fashion, in the movies, and doing things like that was a challenge. Interestingly enough, I worked for fifteen years in the film business, and my job was continuity director. I would be like, “The purse-string was on the left side in this scene. It had to be on the left side of the other scene. The button had to be done up. Everything had to be perfect.” I loved it because I always was seeing how to make it better, how to fix it, and how to tweak it. Your gift often can be your curse but I have always enjoyed having that creative mind to be like, “How do we improve the process? How do we make it better? How do we make it more enjoyable?”

What did you like about fashion and movies? Why was that so intriguing to you?

Probably because I’m a Gemini, so I love that diversity but it is the idea of fantasy, creativity, limitlessness and possibility. I love that. Much of what I teach now is what’s possible, what’s capable, what we can do, and what has not been done before, so television, movies, and designing things were always pushing the limits on what hasn’t been done before.

BYW S4 13 | Ignite Lives
Ignite Lives: Story writing allows you to escape into fantasy.

 

What was the turning point to say, “It’s time for me to move on from this.”

I wanted to have kids, so it was time for me to be a mom. I knew this was going to be my last film. I did my last film with Dwayne Johnson. I had a great experience. I knew I was going to get married that fall and be pregnant by the next year. That’s what better way people do. We plan these things. I had my kids, and within five months of my son, I thought, “Boys get ripped off when it comes to clothing, and there’s nothing out here for UV protection. Also, why isn’t there better rain gear?” Within a very short time, I developed an entire kids’ clothing line. Within four years, I was selling in over 60 countries, 600 stores and had made a million-dollar business because I wanted to find a better way for kids and boys, especially UV protection and all those things. That was the turning point in my film career.

I wonder if having the why of Better Way equates almost to no fear. You should have been scared of that. You were a stay-at-home mom now. What are you doing starting a clothing company?

Going to China and doing business on my own as a platinum blonde woman that is a foot and a half taller than everybody else, they picked me up at the airport with a sign that always said, Mr. Owen. I would laugh because it was so unheard-of women going to Asia to do business. Many years ago, that was not something people did. There was no fear. I haven’t told you this story but my husband and I cycled 6,500 kilometers to the Top of the World Highway in Alaska.

I said to him, “Let’s cycle to the Top of the World Highway. I’m going to tell everybody. I’m going to put it on social media. I’m going to announce it.” He’s like, “What if you fail?” I had to stop and think like, “Fail? There is no fail. If I cycle 10 kilometers, I didn’t fail. I’m going to get as far as I get. That’s never a failure.” It was interesting to me because there is this idea that people are like, “What if you fail? What if it’s not possible? What if you can’t do it?” I feel like I have been put on this planet to show people that it is possible. You can do it. It’s always possible. Maybe, you have to take some U-turns and some course corrections but you are going to get exactly where you are meant to get to.

Where you are meant to get to, is that always where you envisioned it?

It’s not, and that’s the exciting part. When you surrender, let go and say, “I know I’m on this journey, and here’s my destination that I want to get to,” but the process of letting go and understanding that the universe wants more for you than you even know what’s possible, and you let yourself weave through that journey, you end up in the most fascinating places.

When my children were 8 and 11, I took them out of school and traveled for a year. We went to 11 countries in 12 months, and all we did was raise money for charity. We’ve always got on the wrong bus, ended up in the wrong place, and met different people in the times but the thing is what was so fascinating was, we always ended up meeting the right imperfect people, taking the right imperfect detour, and ending up in the right and perfect place.

When we look back on it, it was so beautiful and magical. That has led to my publishing house, where I help people tell those amazing stories of those pivotal moments in their life, where at one point, it could have felt like the worst moment ever. You were down on your knees and knocked upside the head but the truth is, in hindsight, it was the silver lining. It was the golden nugget. It was the path you were meant to take, and by looking at it in hindsight and reassigning meaning to it, you now tell the story in a way that benefits others, and it makes a difference for people.

Let go and understand that the universe wants more for you than you even know what's possible. Click To Tweet

What got you into writing? What was the moment that you said, “I’ve got to write a book?”

I was a latchkey kid when I grew up. My mom was a very successful businesswoman, and I would take the bus from school to her office, and then I would sit in her office and wait for her to finish work until I could go home with her. Her secretary would always leave, so I would sit and plunk away on her secretary’s typewriter and write, “The woe is me of JB, having to sit here being a latchkey kid and not being able to go home. It’s 7:00 PM, and I still haven’t eaten.” I would pour out my mid junior high angst on my mom’s secretary’s typewriter but I always loved story writing because it was an opportunity for me to escape into fantasy. It allowed me to think of things that had never been done before.

I will tell you that after my successful kids’ clothing company, I did crash and burn. I did go through that very difficult time of reassigning my meaning entirely, and to your point, why was I doing what I was doing. I would go to China 5 to 6 times a year. I would spend 20 to 25 days in Asia away from my kids. I remember coming home eight days before Christmas. I had been gone for three weeks. No one was there to pick me up at the airport. I took a taxi to my house.

When I opened the door, I could hear my kids laughing with the nanny. They were 3 and 5 at the time. I was jealous that they were having fun with the nanny, and instead of saying hello to them, I snuck up to the guest room, which I had been sleeping in for two years because my husband and I weren’t getting along, and I convinced myself it was okay to go to bed that night without seeing my kids. I was like, “Mommy has been on a thirteen-hour flight. She will see them in the morning.”

In the middle of the night, my daughter woke up in her crib, and she started calling the nanny’s name. I knew right there and then that every single thing in my life had to change, including my why. Why was I making kids’ clothes? Why was I running around the world talking about kids’ clothing, health for kids, and functional clothing for kids, and my own kids wouldn’t even call me in the middle of the night?

My why completely shifted, and I went on a two-year sabbatical. I closed my business 90 days after that moment. I sold everything and walked away. I left $780,000 worth of stock in a warehouse. I took my van and my kids. I left my marriage. I started over. I started completely redefining my why. Why was I doing what I was doing? That was probably day one of the road to the JB that you see now.

What was that like? What did you do to rebuild yourself? What did you do to get to know yourself? How did you redevelop JB?

I will be honest. It’s truly so simple. Know thyself. I went deep within. I did meditate. I went to Sedona. I went in silent retreats. I did all kinds of health practitioners. I did Reiki. I tried everything. I tried drawing myself in circles, painting, dancing, sleeping, and writing. I went through every single thing. What did I like? What didn’t I like? What was interesting to me? What was important to me? Everybody was doing this but I didn’t think that was cool. Everybody thought this was amazing but that wasn’t for me.

I started discovering what I liked. What is my currency of success? As a businesswoman, for many years, I was dialed into what was important to men. I thought, “This is successful.” It was the corporate office, the corner room, and the briefcase. I had to define what success was to me, a woman in my 40s, 2 kids, this experience, and living in this town. What was my currency of success? I went into a deep introspection of me and finding out about me, getting to know me, loving me, understanding me, and then accepting why I do what it is I do.

BYW S4 13 | Ignite Lives
Ignite Lives: Let people know that it’s okay to do what’s proven to be successful so they feel the greatest version of themselves.

 

What did you find as your currency of success?

I love showing people that it’s possible. My currency of success is that if I can do it, you can do it, and if I’ve got to do it first to show you that it’s possible, I’m going to do the work. I love doing the work. I love putting in the grind. I love going after it. I love dissecting what’s done and how do we do it better. I felt that if I could be me 100%, show up in total authenticity, tell my story to the world, and let people know that it’s okay to do exactly the same thing so that they feel the greatest version of themselves, that was my mission. That was what I was going to get passionate about.

I have been doing it for the last couple of years, and I love it. I have the best job in the world. I love waking up every day, throwing back the covers at 4:00 AM, and getting going. People think it’s crazy but I love it because I believe that we are a mirror for the people closest to us and from a distance. If we can be a mirror for them to see what’s possible in them, if we can be the catalyst or if we can inspire them in a way that they haven’t seen before by us being our authentic selves, that will create a big and massive shift.

Me being the fake JB, the businesswoman JB or the power version of a female business owner, that was all a stereotype. That was all something that was planted as a seed in me instead of me being authentically me. It takes so much less work and effort to be yourself. You don’t have to think as much. You get to be you and show up as you. It’s way more fun. As a Gemini and as a person who loves the better way, it’s got to be fun or I’m not doing it.

I’m a Gemini in a better way, too. Let me see if this resonates with you because I love what you said, “If I can do it, you can do it because I believe that top,” but I will also add to that. If they can do it, I can do it, and if I can do it, you can do it, because I will see somebody doing that and be like, “If they can do this, then I’m sure I can do it.” Do you notice that as well?

There are so many people out there doing amazing things, and they inspire me. What you have done has inspired me. Your program and your protocol have inspired me. That’s the lifting of the lid that we all have to go through. It’s that it is possible. There is another option. There are other ways of doing it, and when we surround ourselves with people who are challenging that, it lifts our lid and allows us to see things that maybe we didn’t see before from our past conditioning.

I will never be the JB I am now if I kept being the JB that was born in a small town. We often root ourselves in our stories. We can’t do this because of where we came from, who our parents were, we aren’t smart enough, thin enough or rich enough. That story goes with us as we travel through our lives. It isn’t until we tell our story and see it from that bird’s-eye view or from that new updated version. The new version of JB is not necessarily the version of JB that left this town but I have returned to this town.

My mom had a stroke, so I’m back here, and then COVID has kept me here. Interestingly, I sometimes bump into some schoolmates, some friends or people of my parent’s friends who know me. They still think I’m that same person, and I have to chuckle because it is hard sometimes for people to see you for who you really are.

I was reading in some of your notes. You said, “What’s the best advice anyone has ever given or you have given?” For me, it’s always to be who you want to be known for. Be the person you want to be known for. When my son came here, he was starting a new school. He was like, “I’m nervous about starting school tomorrow,” and I said, “What are you nervous about?” He’s like, “I don’t know if the kids are going to like me. I don’t know what everyone is going to think.”

Be the person you want to be known for. Click To Tweet

I said, “Why don’t you be you? Be you and be the person you want to be known for. If you want to be known for the class clown, be that. If you want to be known for the athlete, be that. If you want to be known for the intellect, be that but be who you want to be known for. Don’t be who you think they think you are and don’t be who you think you think you should be. Be who you want to be known for. If you want to be known for you, then be that.”

That’s the best advice that I have been able to give anyone, and I try to live it every day. Whenever I struggle with a choice, it’s like, “What do I want to be known for? Do I want to be known as the person who made this decision or this decision? Do I want to be known as the person who runs this business or lives this life? What do I want to be known for?” That allows us to step into our greater version of ourselves.

I was listening to a speech by Steve Jobs, and in it, he says, “You cannot connect the dots looking forward. You can only connect the dots looking backward.” That’s what you were talking about. You don’t know where you are going to end up. I wonder if that’s a Better Way thing because I feel the same way. I have an idea of where I want to go but along the way, who knows where we are going to end up?

I doubt that I’m going to end up where I thought I was going but it’s going to be a fun journey along the way, and then when I get there, I can look back and connect the dots like, “That’s why I talked to this person, saw this, missed that flight, did this, and all those other things.” You can only connect the dots looking back and not looking forward. Does that make sense?

Yes, and it’s so true. We don’t know what the masters haven’t worked for us. I was writing. I’m doing a new book called Wisdom for the Back of a Bike, and it’s about my cycle ride. We had a plan to get to the other side of Canada to dip our toe in the Atlantic Ocean, and of course, COVID stopped us along the way because they were not letting people into the Atlantic provinces with the Atlantic bubble. We looped around Canada and ended up being at the parliament building. We decided we were going to make the Parliament Buildings in Ottawa be our final destination. That was going to be our 5,000 kilometers. It was a beautiful experience. It was so full of accomplishment and pride.

That very day was the first time they were ever going to allow public speaking on Parliament Hill and have an open mic, so because of everything that was happening in COVID and the way that things were unfolding in politics, they decided to have an open mic first time ever on Capitol Hill in the Parliament. I threw my hand up and put my name on the list to be one of the speakers. My kids were mortified. They couldn’t believe that their mom was going to talk. I’m in my cycling gear and my cycling cleats.

I went up on stage and started to say like, “I’m JB, and I cycled 5,000 kilometers across Canada. I want to tell people that anything is possible.” It was a glorious experience because when I was eleven years old, I promised my Social Studies teacher that I would one day speak in Parliament, and then I thought, “Here we go. The universe has wrapped this whole dream around years later,” but I had no idea that not dipping my toe in the Atlantic Ocean would lead to me being on Parliament Hill speaking to thousands of people and talking about what’s possible.

What was your first book?

The very first book I wrote in 2003 was called Letters for My Mother. Interestingly enough, I had a difficult relationship with my mom when I was in my teenage years. I ended up leaving college and going to the Dominican Republic because it was about as far away as I could get from her on the cheapest ticket I could find. I lived in the Dominican for three years, and the fascinating part of that was that I thought I had everything growing up in Canada from a very affluent family but I realized I had nothing.

BYW S4 13 | Ignite Lives
Letters For My Mother

Those people in the Dominican had nothing. They lived in shacks and dirt floors but they had everything because they had their dignity, their faith, and they had each other, and they had a family. While I was away, I started writing letters to my mom to heal my relationship with her. I wrote her 200 letters over the three years. She never wrote me back but when I came home, I had such a beautiful relationship with her. I had worked through so many of my problems by writing her letters that I was inspired to write a book about how adult daughters and mothers can heal their relationships. That book is finding a better way on how you can heal a relationship. That was my first book in 2003.

How many books did you write until you decided you were going to a publishing company?

I wrote that single book, and then I wrote about four books that sat on the shelf and didn’t go to print. One day in 2018, I was sitting at a conference. There was a bunch of people up on stage telling their stories. Many of them were crying and losing their resolve because they were telling these emotional stories but the fascinating thing is when they’ve got offstage, people were hugging them, stepping out of the front row, embracing them, and welcoming them. Throughout the week at the conference, people became so close because they told their private and personal stories on stage. They became vulnerable and authentic.

I sat in the audience thinking, “We have something here. Every single person on the planet wants to be seen. Everyone has a story and deserves to be heard. If we could tell the stories in a way that showed the transformation, the growth, and the learning, we could make a difference.” No matter what color you are, what gender you are, where you live or how much is in your wallet, you can relate to the human experience of that hero’s journey between, “Do I become a victim or a villain, or do I take the hero’s journey, and I go for what’s better in my life?” That was the igniting moment where I realized I have to be the person to help people tell their stories.

I have to make a difference. The difference I’m going to make is giving everyone a platform to tell their beautiful and amazing transformational story. I, too, had a story because after I divorced my first husband, I had got into another relationship. It was very abusive, and that relationship was very short but I hid that story for a long time because I was embarrassed by it, and that hiding of that story kept me down. It held me back because I was always afraid people were going to find out that I made such a bad decision.

It wasn’t until I started telling that story that other women came out of the woodwork saying that they too had a similar experience, they could relate or that they appreciated me telling their story because it gave them the courage to tell their story. There was quite a process of me realizing how powerful storytelling is. Now 700 stories and multiple international best-selling books with the hundreds of thousands of people who have read our stories, I realize how valuable that genuine heartfelt story is and how much it changes people’s lives.

Tell us about your publishing company. What is it called, and who do you ideally like to work with?

We call it Ignite Publishing, and it is about igniting lives. I love working with people who have a mission and a message, and people who want to make an impact on others. I’m not the kind of publishing house where we put words on a page, pages in a book, and books on the shelf. We walk you through a transformational experience. As a writer, especially when you are telling your own story, you toggle between the fun, joy, struggles, pains, sorrows, and agony, and then there’s this incredibly rewarding experience at the end.

I work with people who want to tell their stories and who want to make an impact. I work with people who have a mission and have a higher purpose. They want to do something that’s going to benefit others. I strongly believe in the triple win. I win, you win, and someone else wins. Someone who reads your story wins. Someone they work with wins.

There are incremental ways to make an impact. Click To Tweet

The proceeds from all of our books are going towards building schools in Cambodia for underprivileged kids. The triple win is now these kids that get to find out what’s possible for them and how to step into their greatness. We did a book with Les Brown that is all about greatness and igniting the hunger in you. I’m so passionate about the fact that these children who may not know what’s possible for them or may not ever have that deep desire and passion to go after their greatness will now have an environment to do so. That’s the whole thing that Ignite is all about.

Are you looking for people that have a story but don’t know how to tell it or are you looking for people that are already established writers and are looking for a platform? Tell us more about who you are looking for.

I love those people who want a better way to get to the experience. I like people who are potentially not authors but they know they want to be authors. They are people who have a story and want to write it but they want to do it in the most efficient, practical, rewarding, enjoyable, affordable, and pleasurable way possible. I want it to be a maximum experience.

It is people who want to be a part of a community. If you are in an Ignite book, you step into a community of like-minded people. Every book has a theme, so you are with people who are of your peers, and then you use the collaboration of the peers to elevate, encourage, and create great partnerships that are going to benefit you and the whole purpose of the book.

I’m always looking for people who have a story, who want to make an impact, and who understand that there are these incremental ways to do things, and I help you get to the finish line because there are a lot of people who don’t know how to get to the finish line. It’s no different than if I wanted to fly an airplane, I would have to sit in the cockpit, and someone would have to teach me how to use the dials. That’s what we do. We do all the heavy lifting for you, and we show you how to do it. Ultimately because I want you to succeed. We show you how you can do it with your own solo book and with your books to come. I really teach you the business of being an author.

Now I’m seeing a little better. In the background behind JB are Ignite Recovery and a couple of others.

Ignite Female Leadership, Ignite Your Life for Women, and Ignite Health and Wellness.

They are a group book, so it would be like a theme, and then if you have a story about recovery, health, or different things, then you would go in that particular book with a group of other authors that are similar.

Our new book coming out is Ignite Your Wisdom, so it’s all about Ignite stories around wisdom. These are people who are thought leaders, inventors, and who are into the mindset and who have had incredible experiences where something has opened up their lid and evolved their thinking, and broke down their limiting beliefs. They are people who are in that mind space or in that marketplace, so they want to write a book that has other people doing the same thing that would attract a customer that wants the answers to that problem.

BYW S4 13 | Ignite Lives
Ignite Lives: Give everyone a platform to tell their beautiful and amazing transformational story.

 

Do we get multiple stories per book?

Yes, and action steps. Every single author puts not just their story, but then they put in the action steps that they took to get themselves there. As a better way person, I’m like, “Give me the baseline or bottom line of what do I need to do consistently every day to get myself to success,” so every single author writes their action steps at the end of their story.

If there’s somebody that’s reading and says, “I really want to connect with JB. I want to learn more about her books. I want to write a book. I want to be part of this,” what’s the best way to get in touch with you?

Come to IgniteYou.life. That’s our website. You can go there. You can always find me on Facebook and Instagram. I’m the only JB Owen. I would love for you to reach out to me directly. I’m so accessible because I believe like a magnet, all the right and perfect people come to me to tell their stories. When somebody steps into my Viewfinder or into my world, I know that they are ready and that this is their time.

They just need me to help be the midwife to move them through the process. It’s easy to find me. Go to IgniteYou.life. You can go to Amazon and see all of our books are in a series. You can reach out to us that way, and you can get our books on our website. Please reach out to me. I would love to help you share your story.

I didn’t ask you the most obvious question, and that is what does JB stand for?

It’s such a great story. It’s all I’ve got. It’s all my parents gave me when I was born in a small town. My mom was not allowed to leave the hospital without giving me a name but my dad happened to be in Mexico racing riverboats. My mom put JB on the birth certificate, thinking that when my dad came back, they would call me Julie, Barbara, or Brenda. For the whole month that he was away, they called me baby JB because they didn’t know what my name was going to be, so when my dad came home after being in Mexico, he said, “JB. That’s cool. Let’s go with that.”

Thank you so much for taking the time to be here. It has been awesome talking to you. I love what you are doing. I’m excited to read your books, and hopefully, there are people that are reading that are right in line with what you want to do, and they will connect with you because you’ve got a great mission. I’m excited for us to stay in touch as we move along.

Thank you. I would love to reward your authors. I love giving things away, so if they would DM me or send something to me and put the word, “Why,” or we talked about on this episode, I happily will send anyone a link to any one of our books so that they can read the stories and be inspired. I would love to give them a book for free so that they can enjoy it.

Evolve your thinking and break down your limiting beliefs. Click To Tweet

Thank you for being here.

Thank you. You have been a treat to speak with. You are a blessing. I can’t wait to go forward, knowing the why so clearly. It’s beautiful.

Thank you.

It’s time for our new segment, which is Guess Their Why. For this one, I want to pick Elvis Presley. What do you think Elvis Presley’s why is? When you think about his life and the journeys that he has gone on, how he was an unknown, very successful, and then went off the deep end a little bit? He ended up a different person in a different place with a different set of struggles before he passed away.

What do you think Elvis Presley’s why is? I’m going to guess that his why is to challenge the status quo and to think differently. Even the way he danced was different. Everything about him was different. He created so many new things and brought them to the forefront of many people around the world.   He did things differently. People loved it and loved him.

What do you think his why is? I would be curious to see what you think. I want to thank you for reading. If you have not yet discovered your why reading this show, knowing your why will be so much more powerful for you. Go to WhyInstitute.com. You can use the code PODCAST50 and discover your why for half the price. If you love the show, please don’t forget to subscribe and leave us a review or rating on whatever platform you are using to tune in. Thank you so much. I will see you.

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About JB Owen

BYW S4 13 | Ignite LivesJB Owen is a world-class speaker, 17-time bestselling author, accomplished publisher, and global business owner. She is the Founder and CEO of the Ignite Publishing, the leaders in empowerment books; publishing over 700 authors to date. She owns Ignite Moments Media where she produces transformational television, inspirational content, and life-changing events.